Slightly aged TF-4 Fixer removes some of the gloss from RC papers?

Here's a peculiar thing I discovered this evening.

About a week ago I mixed up my first batch of Formulary TF-4 and used it to make some prints, then bottled it. Tonight I got everything out for another session. I had four pages of new negs without index prints, so I began making those, using some old Polycontrast III RC glossy paper. As I was squeegeeing the second one, I realized that it looked like the paper was matte instead of glossy. I checked the first page which was drying and it looked the same way. At first I thought maybe some matte paper had gotten mixed in with the glossy, but then I saw that in a few places where I had left fingerprints on the edges of the paper, the paper was still glossy and darker. The only explanation I can think of is that the TF-4 had something to do with it. I haven't changed anything else in my system. I compared tonight's index prints with those I made last week; last weeks still has the full gloss. I waited for them to dry to see if it was an illusion; they stayed that way.

So how do you remove the gloss from a paper anyway? And what would have changed in the TF-4 in the past week that might cause it? I assume that the oil from my fingers somehow prevented it from happening under the fingerprints.

Anybody else ever notice this? I actually rather like the look it produces. Kind of a semi-matte without so much of the plasticky light reflections of glossy RC. However blacks don't look as dark. I just finished up that box of Polycontrast, but I've got some Seagull and Agfa 310 RC to try next time to see if the same thing happens.

Jerry

I'll bet it's your old paper. Try it on some new stuff.

And, how warm was the wash water ?

df cardwell said:

And, how warm was the wash water ?

Click to expand...

The wash water was between approximately 70 deg F and 80.

TF-4 increases swell due to the pH. This allows faster fixing and washing.

The higher wash temp might have interacted with the swell and caused a drop in gloss. IDK for sure.

PE

[QUOTES=Photo Engineer]

"TF-4 increases swell due to the pH.
This allows faster fixing and washing."

I don't know the ph but know the formulator is
an advocate of high ph fixers. I'd guess it 10
or a bit higher.

"The higher wash temp might have interacted
with the swell and caused a drop in gloss."

Quite usually oxidation is hastened as the ph is
upped. Perhaps it played a part with the fixer
and the fixing. Dan

dancqu said:

[QUOTES=Photo Engineer]

"TF-4 increases swell due to the pH.
This allows faster fixing and washing."

I don't know the ph but know the formulator is
an advocate of high ph fixers. I'd guess it 10
or a bit higher.

"The higher wash temp might have interacted
with the swell and caused a drop in gloss."

Quite usually oxidation is hastened as the ph is
upped. Perhaps it played a part with the fixer
and the fixing. Dan

Click to expand...

Dan;

Oxidation of hypo is slowed by higher pH. It is the least between about 6 and 9 and the pH of TF-4 is less than 10. The TF-4 formula is close to TF-3 which is public. The actual pH value should be close to 8.

PE

Photo Engineer said:

Dan; Oxidation of hypo is slowed by higher pH.
It is the least between about 6 and 9 and the pH
of TF-4 is less than 10. The TF-4 formula is close to
TF-3 which is public. The actual pH value
should be close to 8. PE

Click to expand...

Well, I do know that a 1% addition of sulfite to
a dilute S. Thio. will bring the ph into the mid nines.
A ph of 8 is an easy one for weak solutions of
S. bicarbonate.

Of course an easy matter would be the measuring
of TF-4's working ph. I don't use it. The formulator
expounds upon the subject at rec.photo. darkroom.
Search for, ph 10.5 ephraums .

Then there is the emulsion and it's supercoat. What
of it's endurance in the presence of oxygen and
an alkaline environment? An environment I still
believe to much more alkaline than ph 8. Dan

I use glossy Ilford MG RC papers and occasionaly I would like to get rid of some of that gloss... Is there a safe and "official" way to do that?