Slightly aged TF-4 Fixer removes some of the gloss from RC papers?

[Jerry Thirsty]

Here's a peculiar thing I discovered this evening.

About a week ago I mixed up my first batch of Formulary TF-4 and used it to make some prints, then bottled it. Tonight I got everything out for another session. I had four pages of new negs without index prints, so I began making those, using some old Polycontrast III RC glossy paper. As I was squeegeeing the second one, I realized that it looked like the paper was matte instead of glossy. I checked the first page which was drying and it looked the same way. At first I thought maybe some matte paper had gotten mixed in with the glossy, but then I saw that in a few places where I had left fingerprints on the edges of the paper, the paper was still glossy and darker. The only explanation I can think of is that the TF-4 had something to do with it. I haven't changed anything else in my system. I compared tonight's index prints with those I made last week; last weeks still has the full gloss. I waited for them to dry to see if it was an illusion; they stayed that way.

So how do you remove the gloss from a paper anyway? And what would have changed in the TF-4 in the past week that might cause it? I assume that the oil from my fingers somehow prevented it from happening under the fingerprints.

Anybody else ever notice this? I actually rather like the look it produces. Kind of a semi-matte without so much of the plasticky light reflections of glossy RC. However blacks don't look as dark. I just finished up that box of Polycontrast, but I've got some Seagull and Agfa 310 RC to try next time to see if the same thing happens.

Jerry

 

[jim appleyard]

I'll bet it's your old paper. Try it on some new stuff.

 

[df cardwell]

And, how warm was the wash water ?

 

[Jerry Thirsty]

And, how warm was the wash water ?

The wash water was between approximately 70 deg F and 80.

 

[Photo Engineer]

TF-4 increases swell due to the pH. This allows faster fixing and washing.

The higher wash temp might have interacted with the swell and caused a drop in gloss. IDK for sure.

PE

 

[dancqu]

[QUOTES=Photo Engineer]

"TF-4 increases swell due to the pH.
This allows faster fixing and washing."

I don't know the ph but know the formulator is
an advocate of high ph fixers. I'd guess it 10
or a bit higher.

"The higher wash temp might have interacted
with the swell and caused a drop in gloss."

Quite usually oxidation is hastened as the ph is
upped. Perhaps it played a part with the fixer
and the fixing. Dan

 

[Photo Engineer]

[QUOTES=Photo Engineer]

"TF-4 increases swell due to the pH.
This allows faster fixing and washing."

I don't know the ph but know the formulator is
an advocate of high ph fixers. I'd guess it 10
or a bit higher.

"The higher wash temp might have interacted
with the swell and caused a drop in gloss."

Quite usually oxidation is hastened as the ph is
upped. Perhaps it played a part with the fixer
and the fixing. Dan

Dan;

Oxidation of hypo is slowed by higher pH. It is the least between about 6 and 9 and the pH of TF-4 is less than 10. The TF-4 formula is close to TF-3 which is public. The actual pH value should be close to 8.

PE

 

[dancqu]

Dan; Oxidation of hypo is slowed by higher pH.
It is the least between about 6 and 9 and the pH
of TF-4 is less than 10. The TF-4 formula is close to
TF-3 which is public. The actual pH value
should be close to 8. PE

Well, I do know that a 1% addition of sulfite to
a dilute S. Thio. will bring the ph into the mid nines.
A ph of 8 is an easy one for weak solutions of
S. bicarbonate.

Of course an easy matter would be the measuring
of TF-4's working ph. I don't use it. The formulator
expounds upon the subject at rec.photo. darkroom.
Search for, ph 10.5 ephraums .

Then there is the emulsion and it's supercoat. What
of it's endurance in the presence of oxygen and
an alkaline environment? An environment I still
believe to much more alkaline than ph 8. Dan

 

[pmu]

I use glossy Ilford MG RC papers and occasionaly I would like to get rid of some of that gloss... Is there a safe and "official" way to do that?