Sinar Norma 8x10 Field Camera Long Telephoto

Nokton48

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8x10 Sinar Norma Long Apo Ronar 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

I've been configuring this 8x10 Sinar Norma to use out in the field for up to 4x telephoto photography. I have long Rodenstock Apo Ronar barrel dialyte type telephotos right now up to 790mm F14. They made a 1070mm f14 same era and style looking for one but not as expensive as a car. This is all original Sinar Norma 100% except for the clamping plate which was made for me by a machinist friend. I have never seen the original Norma one available. Basically I used this camera for B&w studio portraiture and I am taking the old concept which worked very well for me and scaling it up.

Similar tele experiences? Spring is coming.
 

ic-racer

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Awesome! Thanks for sharing, telephoto lenses that cover 8x10 are not that common.
 
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Nokton48

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Next I want Keith at Custom Bellows to make a 5x7 to 4x5 extra double length Norma bellows, this will be used for close up shooting. By the way Keith is the original bellows manufacturer for Sinar Norma during the era. He still has all the original patterns. How cool is that? Brand new bellows being made by the original manufacturer. Last year he made the "Special Bellows" which is a short 8x10 to 5x7, impossible to find in working condition.
 

138S

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First let me point that Ronar is not a telephoto lens, a telephoto glass has a well shorter FFL than the Focal, as defined in the Kingslake bibles...

The Sinar Norma + Ronar is battle tested setup !!!



...being Reinhart Wolf a remarkable user crafting impressive works with that !

Personally I'm experimenting that with cambo sc, as I lack a sinar 8x10 back...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/27823423611/
____

Let me point that Apo Ronars and Claron glasses for graphic work were optimized for close distance. It is possible to optimize those lenses for distant subjects by adding a proper shim in the front cell to increase a bit the inter-cell distance.

Procedure was described in "Internationale Phototechnik" issue 8/1993...

"Focus the center of your ground-glass on fine structures in the distance like leafless trees or high grasses with a strong loupe at wide open aperture.

Shift the rear frame of your camera to the left and the front frame to the right up to the point you can see the structures get blurry.

Unscrew the front group of the lens circa 2 mm (1 line or 0.08 inch) from the shutter or barrel and look for the fine structures, twigs or leafs. Adjust the distance between the front group and the shutter up to the point the structures are as sharp as possible without any coma and blur. Refocus if necessary during the adjustment.

Place a steel or brass shim of the determined thickness between shutter and front group. If the thickness of the shim is the correct one there is no difference in image quality between the center and the edge of distant subjects. For close-up work remove the shim or place a much thinner one."

Additionally when you unscreewed the from cell to its optimal place then you may count the tours (and fraction of a tour) you need to screew again the front cell. If we multiply the number of tours by the thread pitch then we have the thread thickness we need.

That operation mostly optimizes image quality off center, in the corners and mid.

Probably many (or most) long Ronars around have the optimal inter-cell distance for close work, this can be known by checking if the corners in the image improves when the front cell is unscreewed a bit.

For very long focal Ronars that effect should be noticed less as we take more the center of the image circle, still it would be well noticed when shift/rise performed.
 
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Nokton48

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Thank you again 138S for posting this. At some point I will make shims for my Apo Ronars to optimize to infinity. I think Wolf might have been using an early vintage 1000mm Zeiss F9 Process lens. Early in my career I worked in a cutting edge Color Separation House and they had some process lenses, I can tell you. One of their process cameras was as big as a house!
 

138S

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Probably Wolf had many glasses, but for sure he extensively used long APO Ronars, for example in Catles In Spain work. IIRC his collection of Ronars was sold at Ebay around 2008.

There was some confusion because some people identified APO Ronars as Zeiss glass because the barrel shape, not being aware that the high end Ronars had a waist in the barrel.

https://www.largeformatphotography....ong-Apo-Ronars&p=548965&viewfull=1#post548965

Arne Croell tested several Ronars... https://www.arnecroell.com/lenstests.pdf, also C. Perez did.

Contrary to common belive the long Ronars may work very well by f/11, sporting 70 lp/mm or more in the center, IIRC. Only a guess... but I suspect that some people tended to discard large apertures because not having the lens shimmed for distant subjects, in that case (in theory) that lack of optimization could be partially addressed by stopping more, just suspecting that... as some photographers were saying the Ronars have to be stopped to f/22 while many had not shimmed the front cell properly. Also there are several versions, so not everything is clear, anyway checking the shimming of a Ronar looks a sound decision, if wanting to craft some serious shots with the Ronies. Mmmm... it's pure joy dealing with such a gear kind !!!
 
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Nokton48

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rknewcomb said:
That is quite the field camera!
Robert
Click to expand...
Thanks Robert! BTW How are you doing?
I'm going to shoot some 8x10 Ilford Ortho+ tests hopefully soon. I know you are using the O+?
Also Kodak Mammo 18x24cm and FUJI HRU 8x10 XRAY. Will be FUN
 
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Nokton48

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8x10 Sinar Norma Long Apo Ronar 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

8x10 Sinar Norma Long Apo Ronar 3 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Further work this morning on my 8x10 Sinar Norma. In my studio man cave, my Plaubel Peco Profia Camera Stand is definately the way to go. It goes easily and quickly from lowest to my ten foot studio ceiling. It is in a bit of rough condition, needs some rust cleaned form the column, and needs a replacement floor wheel, which I have found difficult to find. It is a European double caster of unique design. McMaster Carr and the internet so far no luck.

In my storage boxes I found a modern Sinar Bar for the Rail Clamps. These are expensive new, IIRC I paid $40 or $50 and was happy with that. This morning I went out into my workshop and removed some steel pins using vise and center punch/hammer. I think I will keep the modern Sinar black Knobs on the Rail Clamps, now I can slide the Norma Clamps back and forth super easily to precisely balance the cameras. They look OK on the Norma. Finally I will paint the black bar with Sinar Norma Green oil paint. The Red Stabilizing Rods up top are incredibly difficult to find, and even more more rare, are the Screw In Clamps for the stabilizing rods.
 
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Nokton48

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Twin Lens 4x5 Sinar Norma 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This was fun to configure and will be useful for 4x5 portraiture. This time it's two 240mm Sinar Symmars, yes I know one is forward mounted so they are different. Looking around I have a pair of matching 240mm Schneider barrel chrome f4.5 Xenars. May have to cut some boards but that to me is a perfect choice for 4x5. The bottom 4x5 Norma still needs a bit of work but getting there. It came recently from KEH

Will have to learn how to use this. Sinar Norma promoted this as super speedy. Look through the bottom and pop it and see it on the glass. Will be fun
 
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Nokton48

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1000mm F16 Apo Ronar Wolfe Configuration Close Up Looks Good by Nokton48, on Flickr

See Post #4 ^^^ for the camera that has inspired me for decades.

This is very close to what Mr. Wolfe was using out in the field. A standard sized 8x10 Norma Bellows, three Norma Auxiliary Standards (I have another one coming). Three Norma 4x5 standard Bellows. The Compendium Hood is a Norma Tapered 4x5 Bellows. Viewing through the lens image looks really good and sharp. The two C40's provide ROCK SOLID support even in strong wind. Tripods may be weighted down in the field. Measured bellows draw is Fifty-three Inches, so calculated Bellows draw factor is TWO STOPS for this close-up.
 
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mshchem

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Fabulous!!!
 

DREW WILEY

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"Telephoto" is a misnomer in this case. He's not using a telephoto lens, but just a long focal length lens on a versatile monorail camera. The Norma system is indeed well designed for that kind of application. You can add as many rail and bellows sections as you need.

The longest lens I have is a 760/9 Apo Nikkor process lens; but the more compact, already in shutter Fuji 600C is the longest I customarily shoot on 8x10. Either would be hopeless in the windy conditions of the past couple weeks. I've had sudden wind gusts pick up "rock solid" setups and toss the whole thing twenty or more feet - luckily landing on soft herbage in each instance. More bellows simply makes a more efficient kite.

There is also a potential misunderstanding about close range corrected barrel process lenses. Many of these are superb at infinity too. That includes most Apo Nikkors, Apo Ronars, and G-Clarons.
 
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Nokton48

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View through 8x10 Tele Sinar Norma 1000mm F16 Apo Ronar by Nokton48, on Flickr

View through the 8x10 Tele Norma 1000mm F16 Rodenstock Apo Ronar. I have a fresnel screen on the camera, the hotspot moves around, to view the glass in "quadrants". Quite sharp as I would expect from all my Apo Ronar, from the 150mm tiny gem, to this MONSTER. I'll leave this up til I'm satisfied, need to load 8x10 and 18x24cm holders next. This is great fun!

Figuring how to break this down, into my Sinar Norma Cases, will take some thinking. Three or four cases would hold it all. I have a Mint 8x10 Norma Case (bought from a very Nice Gentlemen in Italy), for the rear standard and a lot of stuff. The two FOBA tripods continue at my CLA Spa, one is fully done, cleaning it with Electronic Contact Cleaner, as I would do with Normas, makes a big operational difference in how the big rig handles. Easy to make changes once the rig is up and running!

Drew,
The view with this lens and format is a telephoto perspective. Yes it's not a tele formula. I'm well aware of everything you point out. I've followed for many years two of these same lens on Ebay; both were priced in the Three Grand range. I paid a reasonable price for this one from the UK. Some of these ended up in land fills. Pretty much completes my Apo Ronar collection. One of my favorites to use all round.
 
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DREW WILEY

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Oh my! There must be an alternative to big heavy cases. That's quite a setup. My own set of Apo Nikkors was also rescued just before landfill demise. I also cannibalized a superb machined pin-registered vacuum easel from that giant process camera. The whole thing was left behind in a warehouse due for demolition the next day.
 
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Nokton48

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Wolf traveled the world; Coffee table Book on New York, Book on Spanish Castles, Book on Italian Venetos, shot 8x10 Color Polaroids, and 8x10 color film. "Faces of Buildings" was giganto display at 1975 Photokina in Germany. Pretty amazing at the time.

So he traveled a lot and set this thing up literally hundreds of times, proof is in the books. Wolf seems to shoot everything in 8x10 exclusively; In "New York" I see him with a 5x7 Norma Rear Standard and some type of olde Zeiss humongous Process lens. I'll convert to 5x7 if I need more of the "telephoto pull".
 
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Nokton48

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Nokton48

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From Glennview website, regarding the 8x10 Norma Back:

"The Back is lightweight cast aluminum, machined where necessary. The 4 surfaces where the ground glass sit are machined. The ground glass is held on with spring steel retainers. On the front side of the ground glass frame the surface is machined and is held in perfect position by 4 positioning screws. Your film holder is resting against felt around the perimeter--except at the light trap at the entrance to the film back, however, it bottoms out on those 4 positioning pins. Precision is essential because depth of field is so limited. Linhof started out building wooden view cameras, but soon went to metal when they realized greater precision was necessary. Greater resolution may be had with larger apertures if you can rely upon your film plane to be in the plane of focus."

So with the 8x10 Norma, it is best to calibrate the film back to the type of film holders you are using. A depth gauge will be helpful to accomplish this, with film in the holder.
 

Kodachromeguy

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This is quite the apparatus. Are those two Linhof Twin-shank tripods? They still sell this model at serious cost. And I see two of the white Zone VI camera bags. Very practical design for large format cameras.
 
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Nokton48

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Those are two FOBA C40 tripods.
 
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