Silverfast 9 SE b&w film scanning: 48->24 bit or 16->8 bit or 16 bit HDR Raw for best result?

[koraks]

Yes, that's very nice. Note however that bit depth and pixel dimensions of the file are different and in principle unrelated factors.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yes, that's very nice. Note however that bit depth and pixel dimensions of the file are different and in principle unrelated factors.

I didn't say they were the same. I was just describing how I scan and edit pictures (film and digital) for posting to the web. So if someone looks at my FLickr or Youtube galleries, they know how I did them.

 

[koraks]

Ah OK...well, thanks, I guess...?

 

[khh]

I scan my b&w negatives in an EPSON V700 Photo with the Silverfast 9 SE. SE version doesn't have the option of 16 bit. Therefore, my question is: how do I get the best depth output?

1. Choosing 48->24 bit & then converting in Photoshop to Grayscale & 16 bit. Do I gain anything?

2. Choosing the 16 bit HDR Raw & then inverting it in Photoshop.

3. or directly the 16->8 bit.

I have the Epson v750 and usually use Silverfast to scan.

1: This doesn't get you anything extra over option 3.

2: If you want a 16 bit scan with Silverfast, this is the way to get it. I scan my film with in 16 or 48 bit raw and invert them with Negative Lab Pro. If you want to be able to directly scan, invert and save in 16 bits in a single step, without losing any information on the way, you need a different tool.

3: In this mode Silverfast scans in 16-bit, does the inversion in 16 bit and then saves it to an 8-bit file. If you want an 8-bit final file, this is a good way to get it.

I've always found Epson Scan to be perfectly adequate for my needs.

How do you use Epson Scan? Scan to a positive, then edit that in whatever program of choice? I haven't been happy with Epson scan when I've been trying to do a raw scan of the negative, but I haven't tried it for "finished" scans in a long while.

 

[koraks]

Scan to a positive, then edit that in whatever program of choice?

Yes, indeed; scan as positive with corrections turned off. Then edit in GIMP. For color positive (reflective & film) work, an IT8 target can be used to profile the scanner, although IME the Epson-profiled profile is already fairly close to real world performance. I do all scanning this way, across three different scanners I currently use. Epson Scan lends itself to this workflow just as well as other tools; it seems to perform quite consistently and for my needs more than adequately.
In the video on this page, I have a very brief segment around the 4:00 mark where I show the settings I use in Epson Scan, which boil down to "turn all adjustments off": https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/flipping-the-movie-color-negative-inversion-process-video/

 

[khh]

Yes, indeed; scan as positive with corrections turned off. Then edit in GIMP. For color positive (reflective & film) work, an IT8 target can be used to profile the scanner, although IME the Epson-profiled profile is already fairly close to real world performance. I do all scanning this way, across three different scanners I currently use. Epson Scan lends itself to this workflow just as well as other tools; it seems to perform quite consistently and for my needs more than adequately.
In the video on this page, I have a very brief segment around the 4:00 mark where I show the settings I use in Epson Scan, which boil down to "turn all adjustments off": https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/flipping-the-movie-color-negative-inversion-process-video/

Thanks. Interesting process you're showing off there. I've seen people invert in Photoshop before, but never seen anyone scan the entire bed (or more) and do the inversion and color correction in "batch" as it were. I might try that.

 

[koraks]

The 'batch' inversion helps me to determine a good baseline color adjustment. Individual frames can then be fine-tuned depending on e.g. lighting conditions. You can of course use a smaller version of the batch/full scan to work out a curve and then apply that to identically scanned ful-res images. Especially on systems with less memory this can be a helpful approach. Good luck; I hope it helps!

 

[brbo]

Thanks. Interesting process you're showing off there. I've seen people invert in Photoshop before, but never seen anyone scan the entire bed (or more) and do the inversion and color correction in "batch" as it were. I might try that.

It's an approach as old as an... index print. I think that it sadly kind of disappeared with the popularity of consumer desktop scanners (that were too slow to scan the entire roll fast and in one go).

For instance, Noritsu lab scanning software gives you option to do negative analysis based on all frames or single frame. Very neat when you want to embrace the condition you shoot in and the exposure you deliberately choose at the time of capture.

 

[koraks]

It's an approach as old as an... index print.

Yes, very valid point. It's really basically a contact sheet. I even (inkjet!) print these 'contact' sheets and file them with the negatives. Very convenient.

The Noritsu approach sounds neat; just the kind of thing you'd want in a production environment.

 

[brbo]

Yes, contact print/sheet was the word that I wanted to use. Maybe index print means something else.

 

[koraks]

I'd consider what I make as a hybrid between both, actually, so I think it's a quite appropriate term in this context!

 

[MattKing]

Yes, contact print/sheet was the word that I wanted to use. Maybe index print means something else.

The index prints usually were on smaller media - frequently the index print and the "develop and print" prints were all on 4"x6" print paper.
The index images were, quite literally, thumbnail size.

 

[DavGolen]

Hello,

I'm a bit confused & need help.

I scan my b&w negatives in an EPSON V700 Photo with the Silverfast 9 SE. SE version doesn't have the option of 16 bit. Therefore, my question is: how do I get the best depth output?

1. Choosing 48->24 bit & then converting in Photoshop to Grayscale & 16 bit. Do I gain anything?

2. Choosing the 16 bit HDR Raw & then inverting it in Photoshop.

3. or directly the 16->8 bit.

I found that on my setup, 48 bit color pulled the best detail out of my B&W negatives, (VueScan, Canon 9000F). FWIW, I go with the 48 bit setting and convert to B&W in Photoshop.

 

[Iridium]

Thanx all. After your thoughts and some tests, I ended up to go with the 16 bit HDR Raw setting of the Silverfast SE in Epson V700 b&w scanning. I liked more the result than scanning in 48 bit for example & then converting to b&w in photoshop.