Silvano's in Toronto has closed, having a clearance sale.

[Rudeofus]

Unlike some folks on APUG I was never rubbed the wrong way by people writing from their own experience or who post less than optimistic forecasts about certain photographic processes.

I never saw this spirit in evidence in any of your recent exchanges with Aristophanes and others in threads on Kodak's torment, just full throttle vituperation and bile.

It may be noteworthy that Aristophanes and I had a quite civilized exchange which we continued via PM, again, in a civilized and friendly fashion. I am interested in opinions which differ from mine but don't accept them at face value when I think they are incorrect and/or based on wrong assumptions. It would be highly unfair for me towards Aristophanes to further comment on his postings as he is no longer part of APUG. Please note that I was neither part nor factor in Aristophanes' recent decision to leave APUG.

BTW, "declining demand" is incontrovertible--sad, granted, but true nonetheless. PlusX sales/use dwarfed B&W off brands in N. America. Demand for b&w materials tanked and what's left is barely visible(recall that Kodak's decision to end B&W paper production likely wasn't the result of spite). Home E6 processing? C'mon. Again, Kodak killed their small batch kit, too. Why?

Kodak probably killed their kit because despite all the APUG fury against BLIX it appears that most home amateurs didn't want to put up with 6+ bathes. Eat that, pro labs! You still seem to get the Arista Kit in N. America.

I did never deny the decline in demand for analog materials during the last decade. What I did try to point out, though, is that some product lines were better at adapting to that decline than others, and that pro labs appear to me as especially unfit to meet the demands and hit the wallets of today's analog shooters, at least here in my home town.

 

[CGW]

It may be noteworthy that Aristophanes and I had a quite civilized exchange which we continued via PM, again, in a civilized and friendly fashion. I am interested in opinions which differ from mine but don't accept them at face value when I think they are incorrect and/or based on wrong assumptions. It would be highly unfair for me towards Aristophanes to further comment on his postings as he is no longer part of APUG. Please note that I was neither part nor factor in Aristophanes' recent decision to leave APUG.

Kodak probably killed their kit because despite all the APUG fury against BLIX it appears that most home amateurs didn't want to put up with 6+ bathes. Eat that, pro labs! You still seem to get the Arista Kit in N. America.

I did never deny the decline in demand for analog materials during the last decade. What I did try to point out, though, is that some product lines were better at adapting to that decline than others, and that pro labs appear to me as especially unfit to meet the demands and hit the wallets of today's analog shooters, at least here in my home town.

Anyone curious can reread your contributions to those threads and judge for themselves. Unfortunately, Aristophanes posts are gone except for those quoted in your responses, though that's sufficient. Too bad you didn't convey the civility in public you supposedly did privately. My comments stand.

 

[clayne]

That clown left after blowing his negative load of "reality" on the forum? Typical and completely expected. His schtick was obvious from day one.

 

[PKM-25]

Anyone curious can reread your contributions to those threads and judge for themselves. Unfortunately, Aristophanes posts are gone except for those quoted in your responses, though that's sufficient. Too bad you didn't convey the civility in public you supposedly did privately. My comments stand.

Wow, I did not know he left, I too had a reasonable discourse with him a few weeks ago, chose to just let anything that initially ticked me off to later roll on down the aisle. Did he delete his own posts? It's his choice if he did, but if someone else did, that is SUPER lame....

 

[clayne]

Wow, I did not know he left, I too had a reasonable discourse with him a few weeks ago, chose to just let anything that initially ticked me off to later roll on down the aisle. Did he delete his own posts? It's his choice if he did, but if someone else did, that is SUPER lame....

I highly doubt that one of the admins deleted all of his posts. That just doesn't strike me as their style one bit.

However, on the flip-side, I highly do NOT doubt he went and deleted all of his own posts as some measure of "look at me." That DOES strike me as his style quite a bit.

As yourself what seems more likely.

 

[ME Super]

It may be noteworthy that Aristophanes and I had a quite civilized exchange which we continued via PM, again, in a civilized and friendly fashion. I am interested in opinions which differ from mine but don't accept them at face value when I think they are incorrect and/or based on wrong assumptions. It would be highly unfair for me towards Aristophanes to further comment on his postings as he is no longer part of APUG. Please note that I was neither part nor factor in Aristophanes' recent decision to leave APUG.

I am sorry to hear that Aristophanes has chosen to leave APUG. I would call on all of us to be more civil towards each other. While I can't say I've agreed with everything CGW & Aristophanes have said, I have found in my conversations with CGW (I don't recall having replied to Aristophanes' posts) that he has been quite civil. Those of us on Team Ostrich should be civil towards those of Team Doom & Gloom, and likewise the D&Gers should be civil to those on the Ostriches.

SHOOT MORE FILM!!

 

[MattKing]

One cannot delete one's own posts - the moderators have to do it for you. I think of this as the "Aggie effect" .

I would assume that the deletion would have been at Aristophanes' request, or at least with his agreement, because his posts were always thoughtful, even if they had the tendency to incite argument.

In essence, he was speaking economics - there is good reason that economics is also known as the "dismal science".

 

[PKM-25]

Well that's no good, he put a lot of time into what he wrote. I actually he found him to be the most civil out of the two, at least he responded to my PM's.

 

[Rudeofus]

Anyone curious can reread your contributions to those threads and judge for themselves. Unfortunately, Aristophanes posts are gone except for those quoted in your responses, though that's sufficient. Too bad you didn't convey the civility in public you supposedly did privately. My comments stand.

Anyone who wants to double check, the most prominent threads are (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and (there was a url link here which no longer exists). In my opinion it was a rough but honest exchange, both Aristophanes and I had some good arguments, some less good ones and some polemic was certainly thrown around. I stand behind every line I wrote. Since, as you already said, I quoted the passages I responded to, everyone is free to reconstruct my public conversation with Aristophanes. One thing I did note, that hiding behind the barrage of Aristophanes' arguments you, CGW, decided to wait for opportunities to snipe at people engaged in this conversation, sometimes just as minor disturbance, sometimes inciting sarcastic remarks from Team Ostrich. Look at your comments towards Henning Serger to see what I mean. You, CGW, should be the very last one to complain about lack of civility in these discussions.


To all those mourning or commenting Aristophanes' departure from APUG: I don't think one can delete all his own postings, especially older ones without the help of administrators. I have witnessed the recent very similar departure of another APUG member and from what I heard there was communication between him and moderators before the decision was made to delete all his postings. When I discovered that Aristophanes left APUG I looked through the last conversations where he was involved (from quotations) and the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) was something in the line of "analog users are mostly nostalgic folks who found an old camera in their grandpa's stuff". If this was really his most recent line of argument, I can see how he ran into trouble with the mods. As mentioned previously it would be unfair to rag on Aristophanes' postings now that he can no longer respond.

 

[clayne]

I just think the guy lacked integrity if he came here to preach "truth" while at the same time cutting into people. Where's the dedication? Surely he could deal with arguments and disagreements but if he bails just because he can't keep playing doom and gloom a 100% of the time then perhaps he shouldn't have shown up in the first place.

It's sad in a way what motivates people.

 

[CGW]

Anyone who wants to double check, the most prominent threads are (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and (there was a url link here which no longer exists). In my opinion it was a rough but honest exchange, both Aristophanes and I had some good arguments, some less good ones and some polemic was certainly thrown around. I stand behind every line I wrote. Since, as you already said, I quoted the passages I responded to, everyone is free to reconstruct my public conversation with Aristophanes. One thing I did note, that hiding behind the barrage of Aristophanes' arguments you, CGW, decided to wait for opportunities to snipe at people engaged in this conversation, sometimes just as minor disturbance, sometimes inciting sarcastic remarks from Team Ostrich. Look at your comments towards Henning Serger to see what I mean. You, CGW, should be the very last one to complain about lack of civility in these discussions.


To all those mourning or commenting Aristophanes' departure from APUG: I don't think one can delete all his own postings, especially older ones without the help of administrators. I have witnessed the recent very similar departure of another APUG member and from what I heard there was communication between him and moderators before the decision was made to delete all his postings. When I discovered that Aristophanes left APUG I looked through the last conversations where he was involved (from quotations) and the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) was something in the line of "analog users are mostly nostalgic folks who found an old camera in their grandpa's stuff". If this was really his most recent line of argument, I can see how he ran into trouble with the mods. As mentioned previously it would be unfair to rag on Aristophanes' postings now that he can no longer respond.

Gotcha!

 

[Bob Carnie]

I have limited myself to APUG over the last month or two as I found it nasty of late,,,, what is this Team Ostarich and Team Doom and Gloom.... I guess I fall into team Doom and Gloom...

 

[Rudeofus]

I have limited myself to APUG over the last month or two as I found it nasty of late,,,, what is this Team Ostarich and Team Doom and Gloom.... I guess I fall into team Doom and Gloom...

Some people were accused of having their heads in the sand in regard to the future of analog film, and the strongest proponents, of which I may be one, were termed Team Ostrich. On the other side of the spectrum there are folks who proclaim that the end of analog film is near, these were termed Team Doom&Gloom. Both terms were coined here on APUG so may be unknown in other forums.

 

[CGW]

I have limited myself to APUG over the last month or two as I found it nasty of late,,,, what is this Team Ostarich and Team Doom and Gloom.... I guess I fall into team Doom and Gloom...

The various Kodak "wake" threads verged on bar fights, sadly. This "Team" stuff lightens things up and defuses the angst.

 

[pbromaghin]

Anyone curious can reread your contributions to those threads and judge for themselves. Unfortunately, Aristophanes posts are gone except for those quoted in your responses, though that's sufficient. Too bad you didn't convey the civility in public you supposedly did privately. My comments stand.

I'm sorry, CGW, but I have to defend Rudeofus here. A few weeks ago I was pretty rude to somebody (with whom I believe he also disagreed) and he was quick to call me on it. He also did it privately because he did not want to further a shitstorm that was going on.

Edit: My apologies that I did not read the kiss-and-make-up part of this thread before writing this response. Aristophanes gone? Too bad, he is a pretty smart guy. But one shouldn't let a little flame war affect one's self *that* badly.

 

[CGW]

I'm sorry, CGW, but I have to defend Rudeofus here. A few weeks ago I was pretty rude to somebody (with whom I believe he also disagreed) and he was quick to call me on it. He also did it privately because he did not want to further a shitstorm that was going on.

Whatever. The thread is now way OT. What's point of stoking this again if everyone's gotten in their punches?

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hey wait a minute, I need to get involved.... can I punch out Dinesh.... he really deserves a shit kicking.

Whatever. The thread is now way OT. What's point of stoking this again if everyone's gotten in their punches?

 

[PKM-25]

On topic, anyone know about the 30" Rollma paper dispenser they are liquidating? I am somewhat interested in it for mural paper use...

 

[Dinesh]

Hey wait a minute, I need to get involved.... can I punch out Dinesh.... he really deserves a shit kicking.

At least you have the courage to use your real name and not chirp from behind anonymous initials.

Bob, let me know the when and where.

 

[Bob Carnie]

In your search you come by a 50 inch floor standing econo roll and you are not interested, I am.

On topic, anyone know about the 30" Rollma paper dispenser they are liquidating? I am somewhat interested in it for mural paper use...

 

[Bob Carnie]

So you are ready for 5 seconds of fury big boy??? I would think about that one .

At least you have the courage to use your real name and not chirp from behind anonymous initials.

Bob, let me know the when and where.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Check the silvanos list I think there was one.

On topic, anyone know about the 30" Rollma paper dispenser they are liquidating? I am somewhat interested in it for mural paper use...

 

[PKM-25]

Check the silvanos list I think there was one.

They emailed back, they sold it.

 

[Dinesh]

So you are ready for 5 seconds of fury big boy??? I would think about that one .

From what I have heard from your wife you are mixing up both your fighting and sexual stamina!

 

[Bob Carnie]

ha ... ha... ha... you think I wasn't setting myself up,,, you can do better than that.

From what I have heard from your wife you are mixing up both your fighting and sexual stamina!