Signs of life at the New 55 project

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2014

That's the projected cost for the KickStarter rewards after factoring in final R&D and start-up costs. My understanding (could be wrong, of course) is that they are still targeting for significantly less than that. Although that might also be significantly above $6.

In any case, I'm already in for the KickStarter project. And if they could keep the eventual stabilized price under $10/sheet or so, I'd use it. Mostly for one-off street portraits in my Crown Graphic.

(It doesn't have a motor drive...)

Ken

StoneNYC · Apr 1, 2014

vpwphoto said:
It's $400,000 usd.
Projected price of $15 a shot for 4x5 (I originally thought it would be 8x10).

I know times and nostalgia have changed since the fast rushing tide of digital conversion wiped out Polaroid.
My thought (and that is all they are from this armchair economist that predicted Oldsmobile and Mercury needed to go and "Real Estate is disposable" about 10 years before it happened). ... I don't see many people actually stepping up and buying $150 boxes of 10 exposures. I see a bunch of "yes bring it on people" saying just that, but when the stuff hits the shelves, they will be hard pressed to buy this product even at fire sale prices of $60 for 10 a year past "expiration". I used 55, my reason for not using more is how flimsey the negative was, I ended up preferring a "meaty" standard base negative from Iflord and Kodak, That being said, I have been messing with MONOBATH and my large format cameras. Cheers, my opinion, I can buy a lot of HC110 and Adox for $30 or $150... and have a similar experience, because clearing and drying the 55 negative takes time too.

My biggest hope was actually that if this stuff took off, they could partner with Impossible, and make an 8x10 type 55.... That would be cool!

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2014

Well, they've hit the 20% mark. But it has taken too long, and the initial big backers, to do it. I'm a little depressed.

Ken

StoneNYC · Apr 1, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Well, they've hit the 20% mark. But it has taken too long, and the initial big backers, to do it. I'm a little depressed.

Ken

Take out a second mortgage to help

Personally I think the PA-45 type pack film peel apart stiff would have been cheaper to produce by a lot, no metal and possibly cheaper/easier to produce.

I get that they want to be able to sell using the cheaper holder but the type of person willing to buy film at $12 a sheet or whatever it is, really isn't concerned about a $200 holder STILL BEING MADE NEW...

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2014

That does it. I'm calling Paul Allen. All he would need do is skip one oil change on that restored B-25 bomber of his, and we'd be there!

Ken

CatLABS · Apr 1, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
That does it. I'm calling Paul Allen. All he would need do is skip one oil change on that restored B-25 bomber of his, and we'd be there!

Ken

I think you mean Patrick Bateman...

vpwphoto · Apr 1, 2014

And an oil change on a B-25 would only be a thousand or two tops. $400k is a lot.
BTW just wondering IF the money only gets to 25%... do the "donors" get it back?
...... ^^^^ I get in trouble for being literal, but knowing the workings of radial internal combustion engines and 2 of them at that, the costs aren't astronomical. (oh a B-25... only two 'engines' and 2 bankers at 14 cly rather than the "28" wasp major I thought it had. Peanuts for oil... "labor free" if I were doing it myself..

This oil change thing is really off subject... and it is "Paul Allen" who has the b25

mgb74 · Apr 1, 2014

vpwphoto said:
And an oil change on a B-25 would only be a thousand or two tops. $400k is a lot.
BTW just wondering IF the money only gets to 25%... do the "donors" get it back?
...... ^^^^ I get in trouble for being literal, but knowing the workings of radial internal combustion engines and 4 of them at that, the costs aren't astronomical.

You're payment method is only charged IF and WHEN the goal is reached:

If this project is successfully funded, your card will be charged on:
Mon, May 5 2014 11:59 pm EDT

Prof_Pixel · Apr 1, 2014

mgb74 said:
If this project is successfully funded, your card will be charged on:
Mon, May 5 2014 11:59 pm EDT

Does this mean they only have a little over a month to get the other 80% of the needed funding?

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 1, 2014

vpwphoto said:
And an oil change on a B-25 would only be a thousand or two tops. $400k is a lot.
BTW just wondering IF the money only gets to 25%... do the "donors" get it back?
...... ^^^^ I get in trouble for being literal, but knowing the workings of radial internal combustion engines and 4 of them at that, the costs aren't astronomical.

Wright R-2600 Twin Cyclone 14-cylinder air-cooled radial engines, baby. Nothing else in the world sounds like 'em.

You can probably appreciate this link, then. There are two air-worthy and flying B-25s located within a moderate distance of my house. In the summertime with my windows open I can hear that signature sound miles away. I always go outside for a good look.

I've been told that Mr. Allen has now passed the $100 million mark with his fleet of restored vintage aircraft. Nice hobby, if you can afford it.

He can. I still say we call him...

Ken

GarageBoy · Apr 1, 2014

Im dreaming, but itd be nice if Fuji saw this and threw these guys a bone.... meanwhile, the reality is that they just axed fp3000b

CatLABS · Apr 1, 2014

Prof_Pixel said:
Does this mean they only have a little over a month to get the other 80% of the needed funding?

Yes - but there are no set trends on KS, regardless of what they would have you think. Reading in depth into their analasys shows that the projections about the actual time money is pledged, the size of the pledges, and the probability of specific things happening in a project if XYZ are chosen by the creator is only true in a fraction of cases and their highest control rate is under 20% of cases. I am no statistician, but that means to me there is no way to predict what will happen in 30 days.

While i am optimistic and hope this project happens, it is slowed down now, but most funding can happen in the last few moments, as they are moving forward if slowly, and steadily. Its up to all community members to post this on their FB pages, DPreview comment pages etc., to get the most traffic to the page...

swhiser · Apr 1, 2014

vpwphoto said:
I read last they are projecting $15 a sheet... I thought that would be 8x10" but no it's 4x5"...

That would be a misreading.

-Sam Hiser

project CEO
new55project.com

Roger Cole · Apr 2, 2014

StoneNYC said:
My biggest hope was actually that if this stuff took off, they could partner with Impossible, and make an 8x10 type 55.... That would be cool!

At what price?

8x10 is four times the area of 4x5. At Freestyle,which I just checked, HP5+ for example is 3.3 times as much per sheet in 8x10 as in 4x5. If that same ratio held, we'd be talking nearly twenty bucks a sheet if the 4x5 does come in at $6. If the 4x5 is closer to $10 that'd be nearly thirty five bucks a pop in 8x10.

It would be cool, but not THAT cool. At least not to me. Maybe if someone had the right commercial use and a client willing to pay it might make sense.

StoneNYC · Apr 2, 2014

Roger Cole said:
At what price?

8x10 is four times the area of 4x5. At Freestyle,which I just checked, HP5+ for example is 3.3 times as much per sheet in 8x10 as in 4x5. If that same ratio held, we'd be talking nearly twenty bucks a sheet if the 4x5 does come in at $6. If the 4x5 is closer to $10 that'd be nearly thirty five bucks a pop in 8x10.

It would be cool, but not THAT cool. At least not to me. Maybe if someone had the right commercial use and a client willing to pay it might make sense.

At a fair for example, you could easily sell an 8x10 for $100 and keep the negative and sell them the print to take home. Especially fairs and Renaissance Festivals etc. That's not amazing but it's do-able. And sell them digital copy emailed to them of the negative for extra. Etc.

Roger Cole · Apr 2, 2014

Maybe in New York you could get that at a fair. Here I think $25 would be pushing it. Not sure about Ren Faires but I suspect it wouldn't be much different.

I do have a similar idea for a project but the price point will be a lot less than $100 per print.

StoneNYC · Apr 2, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Maybe in New York you could get that at a fair. Here I think $25 would be pushing it. Not sure about Ren Faires but I suspect it wouldn't be much different.

I do have a similar idea for a project but the price point will be a lot less than $100 per print.

Well you offer the 4x5 version for $25-$30 and the 8x10 for $100

Some clients like it big!

David Grenet · Apr 2, 2014

swhiser said:
That would be a misreading.

-Sam Hiser

project CEO
new55project.com

Indeed. From the kickstarter faq:

Assuming this campaign is successful, will the cost per sheet reduce once you are set up to sell independently?

The money pledged from Backers in this Kickstarter campaign is going primarily to manufacturing capacity. After a successful campaign, our goal would be to get the market price of New55 FILM down as far as component costs permit. Our goal is as low as $6 per sheet. (Scale economies can potentially improve things from there.)

So they need enough people willing to pay $15/sheet to get them going, then the ongoing cost will be ~$6/sheet. I've backed it. I really hope enough others do too but if not then it is what it is.

Xmas · Apr 2, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Maybe in New York you could get that at a fair. Here I think $25 would be pushing it. Not sure about Ren Faires but I suspect it wouldn't be much different.

I do have a similar idea for a project but the price point will be a lot less than $100 per print.

Confirmed mounted fine art AgBr prints 8x10 dont sell at 25GBP in London, maybe one a month.

If you have a relative with an inkjet printer you email him/her a selfie, collect the A4 or A3 later.

Better turnover attending estate sales buying old cameras and selling as shelf objects or oldey worldey film cameras.

unityofsaints · Apr 8, 2014

Well, I just bought my Polaroid 545 back which will go largely unused (maybe some expired Fuji Quickload here and there) in anticipation of this Kickstarter succeeding.

I'm an optimist

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 8, 2014

They just now hit the 25% funded mark (US$100,000)...

Ken

toro_mike · Apr 16, 2014

The latest Kickstarter update from CEO Sam Hiser is not positive. A very depressing read to start a Wednesday. Here's to hoping he is wrong and the necessary supporters arrive before the end of the campaign to save the day.

unityofsaints · Apr 16, 2014

toro_mike said:
The latest Kickstarter update from CEO Sam Hiser is not positive. A very depressing read to start a Wednesday. Here's to hoping he is wrong and the necessary supporters arrive before the end of the campaign to save the day.

Well, I was surprised to hear such abject pessimism from the project people themselves. I'm against the corporate BS that permeates most things these days but couldn't they have refrained from throwing in the towel for at least another week? These kind of statements tend to be self-fulfilling prophecies.

In an age where a BILLION people (rough estimate, but you get the picture) use the epic waste of time that's Facebook, hundreds of millions have the brain replacements called smartphones and tens of millions spend outrageous sums on sundry luxury electronics because they're status symbols we can't find a few thousand people to contributed to saving an entire format of B&W photography? FP-100B and FP-3000B are on the way out as well folks, it's this or nothing when it comes to large format instant film! Unless you want to pay 20$/shot (or whatever it is) for 8x10 Impossible film.

Now the other angle to take here may be that people want this kind of film but aren't convinced this particular project can deliver the goods, or deliver at the right price point.

Which is it? Option A? B? A bit of both?

I'm puzzled.

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 16, 2014

toro_mike said:
The latest Kickstarter update from CEO Sam Hiser is not positive. A very depressing read to start a Wednesday. Here's to hoping he is wrong and the necessary supporters arrive before the end of the campaign to save the day.

No, unless a sugar daddy steps in they're not going to make it. That's been apparent for a while. They are consistently just too far behind the pledge curve. And even if a sugar daddy materialized, that's not the fundamentally sound market they can use to move forward over the long term.

At this moment they are at 946 pledges for US$136,874. I know there are more than 946 4x5 photographers in the world. Harman wouldn't be cutting film for that format if that was all there were. But the trick is to reach them. About 3,000 is the publicly stated need. Heck, of the 65,655 at least one-time member sign-ons here, there's probably at least that many who own at least one 4x5 format camera.

But getting people to part with a little money in an act of faith is a really, really hard thing to do. The fact is, there are not many visionaries in the world. And even less that can see that quality in others. In this day and age it's the pragmatists that rule. That's one reason the world finds itself in the seemingly insoluable ruts that it does...

Ken

Barry S · Apr 16, 2014

I think Type 55 is great and hope this project succeeds, but I don't think New 55 is viable at $15/sheet. If anyone could make this work, it would be Ilford. So if you don't see them swooping in and taking over New 55, it's probably not going to happen.

Signs of life at the New 55 project

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