Side-by-side comparison of BW films?

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Noble

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i have no idea what your known behavior is aside from the things you have posted in this thread and your social critique in the what s lomo thread.

So you read the first thread I posted to and the last thread I posted to, skipped everything else inbetween, misinterpreted what I said, and then arrived at a rather fantastic conclusion. And this is my fault how?

My strategy is a little different. I assume everyone that is posting on this forum enjoys taking pictures and does so at least on a semiregular basis. Even if I disagree with them about a particular piece of equipment, methodology, or philosophy I at least give them the benefit of the doubt in that regard. It's awfully dark not to.

you already suggested such a study would be useful, and i was under the impression that you currently do something similar ...
since you linked to a website that had information you suggested you use.

jnanian, I have an inquisitive mind and I ruminate about a whole host of things. Just because I theorize about one thing or another doesn't mean that it forms the sole basis of my photographic endeavors or in fact is even a major factor in my hobby. I didn't start this thread. I just happened upon it and expressed some thoughts.


you already suggested such a study would be useful, and i was under the impression that you currently do something similar ...
since you linked to a website that had information you suggested you use.

WTF?! You said you thought some information would be useful and I provided a link to where that information was already being collected so you could look at it! I wouldn't have helped you out if I knew you were going to insult me for doing it. I happened to have some Beutler's and a roll of TMAX 100 and wanted to know what to do. It's not like there was detailed information on TMAX 100 in Beutler's on the film box so I googled. Is that a crime?!

i think it would be an interesting experiment to have a thread that is only one specific type of film, and people post attachments to it showing
whatever film and a note as to how it was developed

Check out this site. I use it to see if what I am doing with a new developer is at least reasonable.

i would rather spend my time and effort making photographs on lo-fi or hi-fi photographic equipment, not studying the effects and affects of film and developers.

Me too. Welcome to the club.
 

removed account4

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Arctic amateur :

i am sorry i even bothered to continue with your thread.
i hope you were able to find the information you needed,
it wasn't my intent to get into an absurd argument with anyone else.

====

noble,

you are acting in this thread, just as you were acting in the LOMO thread.

the conclusions you have drawn from my additions to this thread
are nothing short of absurd, just like in the LOMO thread.

best of luck with your science experiments, research and findings,
i hope you find them helpful.
 

Noble

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best of luck with your science experiments, research and findings,
i hope you find them helpful.

You know full well I never said I had any intention of carrying out this experiment. Please stop with the false characterizations.

noble,

you are acting in this thread, just as you were acting in the LOMO thread.

the conclusions you have drawn from my additions to this thread
are nothing short of absurd, just like in the LOMO thread.

That's what this is about?! jnanian, I am sorry for whatever I may have said to you weeks ago. I don't bear any ill will towards you. I would not say something to someone about a random topic on a photography forum and even remember what I said let alone carry it around with me for weeks or months.

FYI, I am a pretty casual shooter these days. My style is heavily influenced by cost and ease of use. I like ISO 100 and slower film. 90% of what I've shot in the last 18 months was developed with stand developing. So literally I have developed everything ISO 100 and slower in one developer, for one length of time, at one temperature. My C-41 stuff I mostly send to Walmart and get developed for $0.84 unless it is a special roll from a trip or major event. So now does that sound like someone that is OBSESSED with tweaking negatives and developers?

Frankly I would try different things if it were not for time and money. I also agree with Michael R 1974. There is a lot of voodoo floating around out there and I would like to have some objective reason for making certain choices. Currently my choices are based on economics and simplicity but I don't necessarily want that to be always the case. Again I am just thinking allowed and pondering the possibilities in this thread. People are free to disagree with me but characterizing me as someone more concerned with developing film as opposed to shooting pictures is clearly wrong.
 

dorff

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I must admit that I don't see what a hundred different photographs of a hundred different scenes taken with a hundred different cameras would tell me about the film.

I think I can refine my question even further:

What is the difference between Tri-X and HP5+?

And from all your comments, I believe the answer is:

All "normal" BW films are essentially identical. The variation caused by processing and printing far exceeds any inherent variation from film type to film type.

Thank you.

Tri-X is more "gritty" to my eye; I also think it has slightly higher contrast in the mid-tones, which is very nice for printing directly on medium grade paper. When pushed, it loses tonal reproduction and grain quality quicker than HP5, for instance. This can be put to use if you want a certain grittyness with high contrast effect. I use it only at box speed, and for me it is a wonderful film with very nice character for portraits, photojournalism type stuff etc. I am not sure I would use it for landscapes or architecture. And I tend not to use it in direct sunshine.

HP5+ is slightly "smoother" to my eye, and takes pushing with more grace. The difference is small, and I wouldn't be able to always tell which is which based on two prints of different subject matter. But when I put two images of the same scene on the different films next to each other, I think I'd be able to tell the difference. Especially with skin, the HP5+ looks slightly "boring", which again is a way of saying almost nothing :smile:. I just prefer Tri-X at box speed. At 1600 or for direct sunlight I'd prefer the HP5+, though.

I have stopped using Kentmere 400 / Rollei RPX 400, since it doesn't like Rodinal, which is my standard developer. I do have 20 rolls or so of RPX in 120, that I will develop in HC-110, but apart from that, I don't see myself stocking up on it again. I have shot quite a bit of Neopan 400 in 35mm, and I really like it. Since it is unavailable in 120, I won't restock. It is a matter of standardisation, as well as passive protest at Fuji for not making this film available in 120.

When you compare "same class" films, you will find differences to be rather academic. TMax 100, Acros and Delta 100 are indeed very close. But they have slight differences in some parts of the tone curve, that may or may not interest you much. AFAIK, the TMax curve has a gentler shoulder, while Acros has a distinct lift which makes the latter slightly more prone to blow out highlights. If you are a wedding photographer who sees a lot of white dresses every day, then you might consider TMax instead of Acros. In my usage Acros is just fine, and since it is the more affordable of the two, I have more or less standardised on it for slow film.

T-grain films are less forgiving of development errors of time or temperature. They have higher "gain", which means that small changes in time or temperature have large effects in negative density. For beginners, I'd recommend FP4+ and HP5+ with more ease than TMax, Delta etc, as they are more likely to get useable negatives. The conventional films also record small tonal variations slightly better, which is why despite the grain, prints from them can indeed look more interesting and more "alive" than the T-grain films. But again, this is really subtle, and it takes good printing hardware and technique to show such differences. On the average web-sized scan, this will be totally irrelevant. If grain is all that worries you, then it is obvious which films would give you better results.
 
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