Shutter won't open

[Lala29]

I have a Kodak Retinette IB Pronto-LK but everytime I click the button to take a photo the shutters don’t open. I’m wondering if this is fixable? Thank you in advance!

 

[F4U]

Yes it is entirely fixable The shutter is so dried up it refuses to even open at all. But since Chris Sherlock is retired I don't know who to refer you to.

 

[Tel]

Try Paul Barden, AKA retina_restoration on this site.

 

[FilmShooterX]

I think it has a leaf shutter. The most likely cause is oil on the shutter blades. There are many videos on Youtube that shows you how to clean the blades.

 

[F4U]

This problem can not be remedied by owner. Even if he were able to get the shutter to open and close, the speeds would all be so inaccurate as to be worthless This requires a professional Trust me on this.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I have a Kodak Retinette IB Pronto-LK but everytime I click the button to take a photo the shutters don’t open. I’m wondering if this is fixable? Thank you in advance!

The grease in the shutter is gummed up and needs a deep clean. I know one repair shop in the center of Cologne, but they are backed up for months. You can try to remove the front lens to get to the shutter, but it's not an easy feat.

 

[F4U]

Well, duh.. what a dunce I am. Only 2 months ago Southern Photo Technical Service in Miami Florida overhauled the Compur shutter on my Super Graphic. i was very happy with the price and speed of service. And it turned out as perfect as anybody could hope. Highly recommend. But once again, do NOT attempt any kind of work yourself. You will most certainly ruin it. A Compur is not a Wollensak. It's in a whole other league. Only an experienced trained professional has any business touching one.

 

[blee1996]

Unless it has sentimental value, the repair cost of those cameras far exceeds the replacement cost. If I were you, I would either buy another working one, or tamper with it myself. There is not much to lose here.

 

[Don_ih]

But once again, do NOT attempt any kind of work yourself.

Advice to be ignored.

If @Lala29 has any desire to learn how to repair things, go right ahead. The world doesn't end because a shutter never gets put back together.

 

[koraks]

The world doesn't end because a shutter never gets put back together.

Especially because of this:

Unless it has sentimental value, the repair cost of those cameras far exceeds the replacement cost.

This makes it a great object to practice on.

Only an experienced trained professional has any business touching one.

Fortunately, we're entirely free to decide whether we want to touch stuff we own and we don't have to take commands from random strangers on the internet.

 

[retina_restoration]

Fortunately, we're entirely free to decide whether we want to touch stuff we own and we don't have to take commands from random strangers on the internet.

100%

 

[BrianShaw]

100%

The only caveat, which I’d absolutely invite your professional opinion, is that if DIY is attempted and not successful then professional repair service price or ability to repair could be significantly impacted.

 

[koraks]

if DIY is attempted and not successful then professional repair service price or ability to repair could be significantly impacted.

Trying to DIY-fix this involves a (much) larger than 50% chance of FUBARing the shutter. But as we've established already, the economic cost of repair doesn't compare favorably to the replacement value of the camera. So the question is whether that should be considered a loss. The gain would be to learn something and a limited chance of restoring the camera to a sort-of working condition so that it may at least produce scannable/printable negatives.

What I (and several others) am advocating here is a sense of practical realism that sometimes lacks in the more theoretically oriented posts on this forum.
Of course, it would be best if the camera had been taken out of storage every month to exercise the shutter several times. That it would have received a CLA whenever shutter speeds started to deviate. That the camera was film tested once in a while to ensure overall proper functioning. The reality is that these cameras are often derelicts that emerge in 2nd hand shops after having spent 60 years in a dusty and possibly humid attic or basement, change owners for $10 and are then in the best scenario used for a few rolls of film after which they are put back into long-term idle storage. We're talking about an old consumer-grade 35mm amateur camera, not an almost-mint Antikythera mechanism from antiquity.

 

[retina_restoration]

The only caveat, which I’d absolutely invite your professional opinion, is that if DIY is attempted and not successful then professional repair service price or ability to repair could be significantly impacted.

With emphasis on “could be”, sure. I’ve serviced hundreds of cameras in the past five years, and I can count the number of cameras that were damaged by the owners bungled/inept DIY repair attempt as being less than ten.
In most of those cases, the “damage” was limited to occasional lost parts (usually screws) or bent components that were easily replaced for a modest fee (cocking racks not included).
I don’t charge extra for servicing cameras that have been partially/fully disassembled by the owner unless they’ve made a mess of it in other ways. If it doesn’t add extra time to the work, then what exactly am I charging extra for??

 

[retina_restoration]

Trying to DIY-fix this involves a (much) larger than 50% chance of FUBARing the shutter. But as we've established already, the economic cost of repair doesn't compare favorably to the replacement value of the camera. So the question is whether that should be considered a loss. The gain would be to learn something and a limited chance of restoring the camera to a sort-of working condition so that it may at least produce scannable/printable negatives.

What I (and several others) am advocating here is a sense of practical realism that sometimes lacks in the more theoretically oriented posts on this forum.
Of course, it would be best if the camera had been taken out of storage every month to exercise the shutter several times. That it would have received a CLA whenever shutter speeds started to deviate. That the camera was film tested once in a while to ensure overall proper functioning. The reality is that these cameras are often derelicts that emerge in 2nd hand shops after having spent 60 years in a dusty and possibly humid attic or basement, change owners for $10 and are then in the best scenario used for a few rolls of film after which they are put back into long-term idle storage. We're talking about an old consumer-grade 35mm amateur camera, not an almost-mint Antikythera mechanism from antiquity.

And as we all know, Antikythera no longer makes replacement parts.
Jokes aside, koraks is quite right: the camera in question has relatively little value, so it’s up to the owner if they want to turn it into a museum-worthy example of its type, or maybe just learn something about how cameras are constructed. The world isn’t going to stop turning if the OP makes a mess of their Retinette by attempting to fix it themselves.

 

[F4U]

Trying to DIY-fix this involves a (much) larger than 50% chance of FUBARing the shutter. But as we've established already, the economic cost of repair doesn't compare favorably to the replacement value of the camera. So the question is whether that should be considered a loss. The gain would be to learn something and a limited chance of restoring the camera to a sort-of working condition so that it may at least produce scannable/printable negatives.

What I (and several others) am advocating here is a sense of practical realism that sometimes lacks in the more theoretically oriented posts on this forum.
Of course, it would be best if the camera had been taken out of storage every month to exercise the shutter several times. That it would have received a CLA whenever shutter speeds started to deviate. That the camera was film tested once in a while to ensure overall proper functioning. The reality is that these cameras are often derelicts that emerge in 2nd hand shops after having spent 60 years in a dusty and possibly humid attic or basement, change owners for $10 and are then in the best scenario used for a few rolls of film after which they are put back into long-term idle storage. We're talking about an old consumer-grade 35mm amateur camera, not an almost-mint Antikythera mechanism from antiquity.

Funny how a site moderator of all people can make a nasty comment with impunity abut a post from a member that broke no rules of the TOS . And have his post upvoted. And then they both turn right around and expound on said post, adding to it's legitimacy. It's a good thing I'm not thin-skinned. It's only the internet, after all. I am one of only 2 posters to this entire thread that pointed the OP to how to best solve his problem with a happy outcome. I only paid SPTS $125 on my Graphic Compur shutter last month, and it turned out beautifully. You're welcome.

 

[koraks]

Funny how a site moderator of all people

I didn't comment as a moderator. Most of the time when we post, despite the 'moderator' tag (which we cannot selectively remove, FYI), we post as regular people on the basis of our private opinions. That's what I did here. My private opinion on the matter is that an expensive repair often isn't really worth it if the economic value of the camera is limited. Several people share that opinion. You're entitled to your, different opinion, in which case we simply disagree. We don't have to reach consensus, and it's not a problem that we end up disagreeing. In this case, we disagree on what's "the best" solution. I think that really depends. I intended to bring a bit of realism to that question - or rather, emphasize the sense of realism already put forth by someone else.

As to 'impunity' - not really. We're as liable to being criticized as well as called out for any missteps we make as moderators as anyone else. Heck, I'd say even more so. People tend to get all flustered when "the moderator" says something. They really shouldn't. It's just a guy and his opinion, like everyone.

 

[BrianShaw]

Before getting wrapped around the axle, it might be worth noticing that we know nothing about the OP's potential repair skills nor do we know anything about the OP's intent/desires with the camera. "Is it fixable" is a simple yes/no quesiton. Wtohout additional infomation its really difficult to do anything more than explore the various potential options. Seems like the range of options has been presented. Heck... we don't even know if the OP/'s intent is to return to this thread to see the answer(s).

Joined Thursday at 11:55 AM
Last seen Thursday at 12:00 PM

I sure hope that he/she returns with additional insights to help better refine the answers/options available.

 

[koraks]

More pragmatic sensibility! Keep it coming. No irony in that remark btw.

 

[retina_restoration]

Funny how a site moderator of all people can make a nasty comment with impunity abut a post from a member that broke no rules of the TOS . And have his post upvoted. And then they both turn right around and expound on said post, adding to it's legitimacy. It's a good thing I'm not thin-skinned. It's only the internet, after all. I am one of only 2 posters to this entire thread that pointed the OP to how to best solve his problem with a happy outcome. I only paid SPTS $125 on my Graphic Compur shutter last month, and it turned out beautifully. You're welcome.

My opinion as a Kodak Retina repair specialist is that a Retinette with the “lowly” Pronto shutter isn’t worth spending $125 to repair, unless the camera is a family heirloom with great sentimental value.

You’re welcome.

 

[Don_ih]

I don't actually care about the value. If you want to try to learn how to repair the thing, go ahead and try.

If you have a cautionary tale, feel free to tell it. Everyone would love to hear how you opened the shutter and springs, gears, and levers flew everywhere.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I think it has a leaf shutter. The most likely cause is oil on the shutter blades. There are many videos on Youtube that shows you how to clean the blades.

Corrosion is very likely possibility. Many 90 year old shutters have had any volatile element in the original lubrication evaporate. Rust or some other corrosion (excuse my simple understanding; I use 'rust' for oxidized iron, and 'other corrosion' for 'oxidized metal that isn't iron' ) is common in shutters from this time. Prontors seem to have more than Deckels?? Correction welcome. Corrosion can be harder it seems- it requires physical polishing and often needs full disassembly to get inside. Old lubes can often be flushed out without full disassembly (oh geez, now I asked for it; look, sometimes getting something working is the game, not restoring to factory finish).

If the OP looks at some 1930s Prontor interiors, figures out how to get inside, and wants to muck around, I say go for it. Suggestion: have a digital camera on the table and take photos at each step. Like lots of photos. Rotate the shutter, take 4 shots, remove a screw, take 4 shots rotating again, lather rinse repeat. Oftentimes the info you need in rebuilding is in the back corner of a shot of something else.

Anyway, leaf shutters are somewhat standard. Escapement, main spring, shutter blades and rotating/open-close system. Learn something on this shutter and the next one will make more sense.

Editorial aside: I'd hate to be an OP like this person only to set off a cascade of edicts and intensive warnings of certain failure, followed by a string of other opinions, etc. People need to read posts- Prontor LK is NOT a high-end shutter but is a solid shutter that might come back to life- and ask questions of a newbie to clarify. And let people express their opinions without seeing the need to engage in a 6 post side trek. No wonder people come, ask, and disappear.

 

[MattKing]

I didn't comment as a moderator. Most of the time when we post, despite the 'moderator' tag (which we cannot selectively remove, FYI), we post as regular people on the basis of our private opinions. That's what I did here. My private opinion on the matter is that an expensive repair often isn't really worth it if the economic value of the camera is limited. Several people share that opinion. You're entitled to your, different opinion, in which case we simply disagree. We don't have to reach consensus, and it's not a problem that we end up disagreeing. In this case, we disagree on what's "the best" solution. I think that really depends. I intended to bring a bit of realism to that question - or rather, emphasize the sense of realism already put forth by someone else.

As to 'impunity' - not really. We're as liable to being criticized as well as called out for any missteps we make as moderators as anyone else. Heck, I'd say even more so. People tend to get all flustered when "the moderator" says something. They really shouldn't. It's just a guy and his opinion, like everyone.

+1.
We all started here as simply members or subscribers, and we continue to be members in addition to our extra duties as Moderators. All of the team are encouraged to participate in the discussions here as members, and if you disagree with stuff we post in our capacity as Photrio members, then we welcome your posted, civil, and "respectful of the community as a whole" response.
We try to use clear terms on the relatively infrequent occasions when we take steps to intervene in our capacity as Moderators - I'm fond of referencing my "Moderator's hat" to help with that - but sometimes I guess it might not be as clear to others as we think.
If you are unsure whether something is a moderation action, feel free to ask. But in most cases, uncertainty probably means it is not.
I probably spend more time as a "Moderator" doing purely administrative things - like the separating out of tangential posts into their own thread, or removing private emails from public posts, with a suggestion to use the Conversation function - then I do with anything related to enforcement.
At least until people start wandering into politics!

 

[MattKing]

And by the way, @Lala29 , you may very well notice that the image in my avatar is indeed a Retinette 1B with a Pronto shutter - a very capable little camera, worth putting some energy and perhaps a little money into.

 

[F4U]

Where I rubbed mud on my own face is missing the part about it being a Pronto shutter and assuming it to be a Compur, which requires better technique than my own. Sorry for that. Now I agree. If the OP is still reading, this would make a very good "trainer". I tend to look at these beautiful old pieces as irreplaceable. After the war, they sent most of those beautiful planes to the scrap yard to be turned into aluminum siding and camper trailers. A pity in this world. Even that lowly Retinette is still a treasure. I bet serviced in good hands, a picture from it would be as nice as from a Nikon F2. Regards