Maybe I've missed it in the replys but I do not recall any mention of intent as a starting point for critique. I cant help but believe that we ourselves begin the critique of our own work by matching it against what was our original intent. In other words what were we trying to communicate to the viewer. An example is -I was teaching a workshop in Maine last week and, as often happens in these situations, many of the staff assistants apporached me with their portfolios throughout the week for my "critique" of their work. In this situation the people showing me their work have intentions of making their living in the future (in some capacity) in photography. In light of that, my approach to discussing their work begins with "what do you want to be doing in photograph?" and then asking "what do you believe your work is about"? Meaning - what is its intention? In fact I cant imagine begining a valid crit without having some idea as to what was the image makers intention behind the work.
should one judge other's photos?
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Sometimes you just have to get stubborn when someone tells you your work is crap or takes personal jabs at you. I had my own experiences with "teachers" and "guidance counsellors" who thought their way was the only right way, and that anyone who "didn't get it" was too stupid to be in their class. Well, those clowns are probably still rotting away in a classroom, endlessly repeating the same coursework and drivel year in and year out. I got my degree, despite my "stupidity", and never looked back. Sometimes it is a good thing to be out "in the world" before college, so you already know your own mind and how to separate out the nonsense. Similarly. there is a website out there (not the one we used to grouse about) that has various categories for photos. The high rated photos of flowers all follow one formula... tight cropping, side lighting and stark black background. Anything that does not fit this formula is rated lower. I don't shoot that way. So, what to do? I shoot MY way and to hell with the "formula".
Aggie said:
What "good"? Damn near everything to me.
I'll "give it *my* best shot. If the work satisfies my own inner criteria of what *I* wanted to "DO" - it goes on the wall. HOPEFULLY someone else wil "get it", but if no one does - *I* have done what I set out to do (note 1).
I can truthfully say that I have never produced a work that has not affected - "moved" - ANYONE; ... and just as truthfully, a work that has been perceived by EVERYONE as "good". I CAN say that the work was *MINE*, and that is most important - to me.
I've heard of this before - "*I* will show you the way to say what you want to say" ... and the instructor will demonstrate - but the work invariably ends up "saying" what the instructor wanted it to say ... not the student. This is still useful. There is a underlying question here - how does the instructor KNOW what the student wanted to "say" in the first place? In my opinion, that would take a great deal of "connection", rapport and intimacy. The person I am closest to on the face of this planet is my wife ... and I don't think I'd have much of a clue as to what she would try to "say" at any given time.
I remember the line from Ricky Nelson's "Garden Party" - "You CAN"T please everyone - so you've got to please yourself."
Note 1: Art is a verb. I do art in the same way that I fish. I'll be on the stream, casting as well as I know how to. If I am "successful" - that is - if I catch fish ... all well and good. If I don't - I am still doing what I most WANT to do at that moment - Flycasting. So, "success" or not ... it is a "win" - "win" situation - for me.
Hello Frank.
It's been a long time!
More than suggest, I find (I was educated that way) it's very important to analize/judge others' images, but it's fine to keep silence.
Yes all the time, but on internet websites comments more about camera or style not right type and not real photographs.
It’s all about how you do it, but no exchange at all is quite boring. On this form for instance it’s not possible to give Kudo’s, that does not exactly give a community feeling. And it’s neither a community feeling when you keep silent if you have a clear opinion which can have a value for the photographer to hear from.
Frank you raise interesting points. Everyone's view and preferences are different. However, if someone asks for a review, then give it. Sometimes, we miss something that other's pick up. Sometimes it's just nice to know what others think. Sometimes it's just nice to get an "atta boy" to let us know that we're on the right path.
Another issue with too dark or light, or colors that are off, is many people work with uncalibratable monitors. So, what is OK on theirs, does not match the "standard". It would be helpful for them to know that.
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
Is Frank even around? He hasn't been here since 2019...
I will certainly speak up on this if it warrants it, but it's important to see the positive side of works (even if the positive side means throwing it away and starting over) and express that if the artist/photographer/whatever is around. Creativity is a fragile thing and very elusive, you can lose it in a wink, so an encouraging word is the way to go, especially w/ someone starting out.
But if you know the person you can be more frank, if that's the word. There's warranted criticism, w/ helpful tips to share, and then there's gossipy and sniping. We all have to figure out where that line is. My standards for this sort of thing are real high, and I expect a good piece to announce itself when I first lay eyes on it. Not many works do that, so I'm usually in and out of a gallery or museum in a thrice unless it's an opening, because then you get to smooze w/ the Art Scum and get free eats and booze.
I'll look at cows in Dutch landscape paintings all day long if you feed me and offer me free booze. These are the important things that count w/ art! I don't get any of that online, so everyone's work here is just beautiful, maybe the best I've ever seen. And I mean that, sincerely. For other viewpoints, I would need the food and booze.
But if you know the person you can be more frank, if that's the word. There's warranted criticism, w/ helpful tips to share, and then there's gossipy and sniping. We all have to figure out where that line is. My standards for this sort of thing are real high, and I expect a good piece to announce itself when I first lay eyes on it. Not many works do that, so I'm usually in and out of a gallery or museum in a thrice unless it's an opening, because then you get to smooze w/ the Art Scum and get free eats and booze.
I'll look at cows in Dutch landscape paintings all day long if you feed me and offer me free booze. These are the important things that count w/ art! I don't get any of that online, so everyone's work here is just beautiful, maybe the best I've ever seen. And I mean that, sincerely. For other viewpoints, I would need the food and booze.
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Sure one can judge another's photograph. The questions are whether or not that one should open his or her mouth. Is that one qualified to speak about composition, exposure, development or printing or spouting off without knowledge?
Is it just me? -- reading down this necro-thread is like scrambled eggs, there are signature lines not matching the poster and all sorts of seemingly unrelated stuff up there!
That said, I tend not to offer much in the way of commentary unless it's asked for. Sure, nothing wrong with an occasional "like" or "I like the mood of that sky" or state something about a particular element that catches my attention in a picture. But I freely admit I don't have the 'art school' chops or inclination to do serious critiques, especially unsolicited.
That said, I tend not to offer much in the way of commentary unless it's asked for. Sure, nothing wrong with an occasional "like" or "I like the mood of that sky" or state something about a particular element that catches my attention in a picture. But I freely admit I don't have the 'art school' chops or inclination to do serious critiques, especially unsolicited.
Of course you judge. But do you share it with the creator? How well do you know him or her? Especially if the work sucks. A good art school critique would leave most of the participants crying.
It's not just you. I was going to read the thread but, starting from post #2, it was nonsense.
MattKing
Moderator
It worked - our test to see if people are reading the threads before posting is a resounding success!
I'll flag it for Sean's attention
When I was teaching I was strict and judgmental with students; I expected them to be 'well read' with respect to photographic and art history and critiqued work based on historically recognized photographic movements and images.
These days, (seeing tiny cliche snapshot on friend's iPhone) 'Yes, that is nice...maybe you can upload it to the internet'
Friend: 'Already uploaded...'
Aye, sometimes I'm easily suckered!!!It worked - our test to see if people are reading the threads before posting is a resounding success!
I'll flag it for Sean's attention
But I do have a bit of OCD!
Would the photographer care what someone else thought?
And if a photo wasn’t “based on historically recognized photographic movements and images”?
Formal critique or academic critique is to be expected of work that gets published or represented. That's not a "you stink" but a justified exposition of what the piece (or number of pieces) is thought to be in some context or other. That context can be as simple as "within the artist's own work" or as complex as "within the history of western civilization".
It's not really expected when someone posts something online.
If someone asks for critique, they normally are asking if the composition is compelling, if it was properly cropped, how the tonality of the image came across, whether or not it "says something" to the viewer. In other words, at once more basic and more delicate realms of critique.
But as for judgment: you can't even accurately identify something without in some way judging it. And when you know something is being presented as significant or meaningful, your judgment is influenced intractably. Judgment grabs whatever context it can to formulate itself.
Most of the time, if you can't be helpful, be silent.
It's not really expected when someone posts something online.
If someone asks for critique, they normally are asking if the composition is compelling, if it was properly cropped, how the tonality of the image came across, whether or not it "says something" to the viewer. In other words, at once more basic and more delicate realms of critique.
But as for judgment: you can't even accurately identify something without in some way judging it. And when you know something is being presented as significant or meaningful, your judgment is influenced intractably. Judgment grabs whatever context it can to formulate itself.
Most of the time, if you can't be helpful, be silent.
Only proved positive comments or comments on how to improve, but in a positive tone.
You don't have to be an expert to say if you like a photo or not and what you like about it. An engaging photo with great content and lighting is appreciated by most people. Do you have to be a composer to enjoy good music? I was watching this 15 year-old Russian ice skater. She was amazing. I know nothing about the sport. But you can see she was smooth, relaxed, perfect, and graceful, with no mistakes.
Knowledge of photographic history does not preclude ignoring it in one's photos. Although you can go against the grain or break the rules without knowing the rules, if one is a student of photography one should know what came before to begin with.
Very strange thread after the first post in 2003.
But, when 'judging' someone's photograph, I like to start out with a question something along the lines of, "Why did you make this?" Then I can them him/her if they have reached that goal with this particular audience of one or not (me)...and offer suggestions on creating a stronger impact or reaction from their viewers, if so desired.
Alan -- if one knows nothing of the sport, how can one tell if a skater has made no mistakes (other than perhaps the judges have given a perfect score)?
But, when 'judging' someone's photograph, I like to start out with a question something along the lines of, "Why did you make this?" Then I can them him/her if they have reached that goal with this particular audience of one or not (me)...and offer suggestions on creating a stronger impact or reaction from their viewers, if so desired.
Alan -- if one knows nothing of the sport, how can one tell if a skater has made no mistakes (other than perhaps the judges have given a perfect score)?
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