Should I start developing at home?

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Cholentpot

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Back then you still had those leaflets from both, film and processing chemicals, manufacturers, and could chose from a variety of combos. Now you got manufacturers with weird websites and got weird forums.

Except Kodak gave the wrong recommendations for Tri-x and has stuck by it.

A $30 sous vide covers temperature to 0.5F at near zero effort. The hardest part for me is getting the pour-out time right to get exact development time, but I find that plus or minus ten seconds in getting the stop bath in doesn't seem to have much effect. Then again, I can't look at a negative and tell it's got crossover like some folks can.

Not infallible.

I set mine to 104 because temps were dropping way to fast and I ruined over 20 rolls before I figured out what the problem was. I've done better without a sous vide.
 

AgX

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What went wrong? The heater gone havoc?
Well, you coulkd have put a stem-thermometer next to it for control.
 

Donald Qualls

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I set mine to 104 because temps were dropping way to fast and I ruined over 20 rolls before I figured out what the problem was. I've done better without a sous vide.

Good grief, do you develop in a walk-in meat locker? I set mine to the 102F recommended in the Cinestill instructions (which I presume is intended to allow for a drop during processing, perhaps as far as to 98F, giving an average of 100F) -- and haven't checked the tank temperature just before pouring out (or the developer just after) because my hands are kind of full at that point. But you must have a far better eye than I ever will if a couple degrees difference in color developer temperature will ruin your film. I do put the developing tank in the tempering bath between agitations at least part of the time, however. I also pre-wash with tempering water, mainly to bring the tank and film up to temperature before pouring the developer.

Still simpler than B&W in terms of knowledge required vs. results, IMO. When I learned to develop film, it was another story -- we had C-22, and there weren't any two-part kits (color dev and blix); I recall C-22 as having something like a dozen steps including four or five water washes, and a formalin-infused stabilizer was mandatory or the colors wouldn't show. We did process E-4 once when I was in high school (fourteen or so steps), had a horse trough and three camp coolers filled with tempering water for all the bottles and graduates and tanks (student rolls, enough to use up the whole kit, as I recall). They used to tell new photographers not to even bother trying to learn color, just stick with black and white or let the lab do your color for you. Now, IMO, color is no harder than black and white, and might be easier (again, in terms of needing to learn one process -- same for all compatible films).
 

warden

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@kikcburluna TBH for only 8-10 rolls per year, I would continue to use labs. By developing film yourself you'll be saving only maybe $40-50 per year, at the cost of waiting longer to see the results (you need to collect several rolls to run a batch) with some reduction of quality due to long-term chemical storage and reuse.
Ditto. For this volume of film I'd just use a lab and save the hassle, extra kit, storage, etc.
 

Cholentpot

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Good grief, do you develop in a walk-in meat locker? I set mine to the 102F recommended in the Cinestill instructions (which I presume is intended to allow for a drop during processing, perhaps as far as to 98F, giving an average of 100F) -- and haven't checked the tank temperature just before pouring out (or the developer just after) because my hands are kind of full at that point. But you must have a far better eye than I ever will if a couple degrees difference in color developer temperature will ruin your film. I do put the developing tank in the tempering bath between agitations at least part of the time, however. I also pre-wash with tempering water, mainly to bring the tank and film up to temperature before pouring the developer.

Still simpler than B&W in terms of knowledge required vs. results, IMO. When I learned to develop film, it was another story -- we had C-22, and there weren't any two-part kits (color dev and blix); I recall C-22 as having something like a dozen steps including four or five water washes, and a formalin-infused stabilizer was mandatory or the colors wouldn't show. We did process E-4 once when I was in high school (fourteen or so steps), had a horse trough and three camp coolers filled with tempering water for all the bottles and graduates and tanks (student rolls, enough to use up the whole kit, as I recall). They used to tell new photographers not to even bother trying to learn color, just stick with black and white or let the lab do your color for you. Now, IMO, color is no harder than black and white, and might be easier (again, in terms of needing to learn one process -- same for all compatible films).

It does get quite cold here in the winter. Yep.

For what it's worth I DSLR scan so color shifts are a much bigger problem than if I used a scanner.
 

Donald Qualls

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For what it's worth I DSLR scan so color shifts are a much bigger problem than if I used a scanner.

Took me a second to make sense out of that, having never done a DSLR scan. I guess you mean, because you're "off label" for the DSLR and it doesn't have the automatic inversion and color balancing/correction you'd get from scanner software.
 

grat

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I keep my C41 chemicals in glass bottles, and put them into the (sous vide) water bath for 103.5 (target is 102). The trick is to make sure the contents of the *bottle* have reached 103 (tested with thermometer) before you begin (yes, there's a 0.5 degree difference there-- all I can say is that's what works). I also have the water for the pre-soak in the same type of bottle, and at the same temperature as the rest (in fact, it's what I measure, so I'm not sticking a thermometer in the developer).

Room temperature is usually 76 or so.

So far, my experience is that a consistent process yields consistent results. Part of that for me includes using an Android app called "Film Developer Pro" for timing.
 

Cholentpot

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Took me a second to make sense out of that, having never done a DSLR scan. I guess you mean, because you're "off label" for the DSLR and it doesn't have the automatic inversion and color balancing/correction you'd get from scanner software.

Correct.
 

Bormental

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So far, my experience is that a consistent process yields consistent results.

Do you start the timer right AFTER you finished pouring developer into a tank?
Do you start pouring developer out 10 seconds ahead i.e. @3:05 or exactly at 3:15?
 

Sirius Glass

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Do you start the timer right AFTER you finished pouring developer into a tank?
Do you start pouring developer out 10 seconds ahead i.e. @3:05 or exactly at 3:15?

It does not matter a what point as long as one consistently use that point.
 

Bormental

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@Sirius Glass well... I have underdeveloped my first 9 rolls. Very consistently. Trying to determine if this was due to poor temperature control or due to me pouring out the developer too early.
 

Donald Qualls

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Kodak's Flexicolor instructions for "small tank" recommend starting pour-out ten seconds before end of time, so you can start pouring in the stop bath promptly at 3:15. Development will continue for ten or fifteen seconds before the developer soaked into the gelatin exhausts, so as long as you don't put in the stop bath early, it shouldn't be a problem. Might need to check agitation and developer mixing strength (liter vs. quart shouldn't be enough error to make a big difference, but you might detect it if you have lab-quality tests of your negatives), as well as possibly increase starting temperature by one or two degrees F.

My experience is that you need to adjust this allowance for the kind of tank you have. My large stainless tank (holds 4x35mm) takes MUCH longer than ten seconds to pour out -- more like thirty, and even longer to fill. I'm no longer using it for color (at least until I find my single-reel stainless tank, which has a fast-pour lid, or get a 3D printer to make a fast-pour lid to fit this one); I recently purchased a three-reel size Paterson to use instead. That tank will pour out in ten seconds, if the graduate is large enough to catch the full-bore stream.
 

pentaxuser

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But you must have a far better eye than I ever will if a couple degrees difference in color developer temperature will ruin your film.

The problem is Donald that rightly or wrongly and I believe wrongly, forums can give the impression that anything more than a temp outside of O.2 degrees C either way of 37.8C leads to disaster and it is surprising how often and quickly someone will suggest that temperature is the cause of the problem when there might be a myriad of other more likely causes and often this is seized upon by the person with the C41 problem, be that problem real or just maybe the person's perception.

I recently started tackling the Tour de France alpine stages although my experience is limited. However having done this a few times I am now convinced that the only cause of not being able to climb like Thomas, Froome, Bernal, Alaphilippe etc is that I haven't got the gear ratio right :D

pentaxuser
 

Donald Qualls

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rightly or wrongly and I believe wrongly, forums can give the impression that

Yep, you're right. We should unplug the server right now.
 

Sirius Glass

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@Sirius Glass well... I have underdeveloped my first 9 rolls. Very consistently. Trying to determine if this was due to poor temperature control or due to me pouring out the developer too early.

If you were consistent with the timing, them the problem is most likely temperature control.
 

AgX

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There are several variables in colour processing. (In another thread we are just discussing the issue of developer depletion in small bath-volume processing.) Thus when there is the chance to keep a parameter up to industry standard then one should do so. Temperature seems one of the more easily to achieve parameters.

This does withhold that one may yield great photographs in a more nonchalant approach to these standards.
 

RoboRepublic

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7 Euros seems fair for film development. Where I live, I have to mail the film out and have to pay postage both ways. With low film volumes, I would not recommend home development unless you really enjoy the development process.
Until you shoot enough film where you can justify developing every 3 months or so, there are really very few savings.

If you really want to try developing film, try B&W first. All you need is a tank, a measuring cup, a thermometer, and some long-lasting chemicals (you would need all of these for color anyway). A small bottle of Rodinal lasts almost forever. Stop last a long time, and B&W fixer is cheap and lasts for months in working dilutions and even longer at full strength. There is no rush with most B&W chemicals and you can shoot at your leisure. If you find you enjoy this, you will likely shoot more film, and eventually shoot enough color film to make home development efficient.

Just chiming in to say this was almost exactly my path to self development
 
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I've wanted to try developing at home for years. While 8-10 rolls per year is about normal for me right now, I would like to shoot more, say a couple per month. I had hoped to develop at home for a few reasons, those being pure enjoyment, gaining a new skill, and saving money. I did a search here on the forum for chemical shelf life because I don't want to spend $X, develop a few rolls, and have it go bad on the shelf. This thread has scared the crap out of me and now I'm wondering if I even want to give it a shot. Sounds like there's a lot more room for failure than I anticipated. Sounds so easy...
 

Sirius Glass

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I've wanted to try developing at home for years. While 8-10 rolls per year is about normal for me right now, I would like to shoot more, say a couple per month. I had hoped to develop at home for a few reasons, those being pure enjoyment, gaining a new skill, and saving money. I did a search here on the forum for chemical shelf life because I don't want to spend $X, develop a few rolls, and have it go bad on the shelf. This thread has scared the crap out of me and now I'm wondering if I even want to give it a shot. Sounds like there's a lot more room for failure than I anticipated. Sounds so easy...


It is not that hard to do what you want. You need a changing bag, scissors, a tank, reels, developer [XTOL is a cheap one], stop bath with indicator [again cheap], hypo aka fixer [again cheap], some clothes pins, some nylon to hang the film. It is as easy as learning to fall off a motor cycle. :angel:
 

RoboRepublic

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I've wanted to try developing at home for years. While 8-10 rolls per year is about normal for me right now, I would like to shoot more, say a couple per month. I had hoped to develop at home for a few reasons, those being pure enjoyment, gaining a new skill, and saving money. I did a search here on the forum for chemical shelf life because I don't want to spend $X, develop a few rolls, and have it go bad on the shelf. This thread has scared the crap out of me and now I'm wondering if I even want to give it a shot. Sounds like there's a lot more room for failure than I anticipated. Sounds so easy...

I'm not sure what exactly you read in this thread that scared the crap out of you. Your reasons of:
1. Enjoyment
2. Gaining a new skill
3. Saving money
Are all valid.

8/10 rolls a year may not be sufficient to justify developing at home. It may be annoying to have all this gear to develop and scan your photos, let alone practicing C41 inversion digitally (easier if you use FilmLab, Negative Lab Pro)


But if you are curious and want to spend time exploring the space, then you should definitely do it. Here are some rebuttals:
Developer X going bad on you 6 months after mixing? Use Rodinal. I've used DD-x mixed and stored in air-right jars for about 6 months for about 20 rolls. Yeah the negatives were coming out a bit funky towards the end, but some pictures actually benefited from the added funk..

Want to do C41? Horde up 12 / 16 rolls and develop on Saturday. I promise by the 8th back to back ,roll you'll have C41 times burned in your brain.

Will you encounter failure? Probably. Will you enjoy it? Probably. Will you get better? Probably. Will it open up new creative paths? Probably. Will you produce great results and feel a sense of satisfaction in owning the creative process start to finish? Absolutely.

What are you so scared of? Fear of failure is a terrible reason. Think about it.. failure is our professor. Being scared of the teacher means you will likely not learn. Start! :smile:
 

MattKing

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I've wanted to try developing at home for years. While 8-10 rolls per year is about normal for me right now, I would like to shoot more, say a couple per month. I had hoped to develop at home for a few reasons, those being pure enjoyment, gaining a new skill, and saving money. I did a search here on the forum for chemical shelf life because I don't want to spend $X, develop a few rolls, and have it go bad on the shelf. This thread has scared the crap out of me and now I'm wondering if I even want to give it a shot. Sounds like there's a lot more room for failure than I anticipated. Sounds so easy...
All is not lost!
Are you talking about colour film, or are you talking about black and white?
It is easier to follow the directions exactly with black and white, because temperature is room temperature, which is easy.
And the black and white stuff that might go bad through infrequent use is relatively cheap, and easier to get individually, rather than in a kit.
But even colour is definitely accomplishable if you are able to pay attention to instructions and work carefully.
 
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It is not that hard to do what you want. You need a changing bag, scissors, a tank, reels, developer [XTOL is a cheap one], stop bath with indicator [again cheap], hypo aka fixer [again cheap], some clothes pins, some nylon to hang the film. It is as easy as learning to fall off a motor cycle. :angel:

Well see, that's the thing. I learned how to fall off motorcycles when I was 9. I might also point out that a good part of your post appears to be written in Latin, or possibly Romulan.

I'm not sure what exactly you read in this thread that scared the crap out of you.

.05 seconds, start the pour at 10? End it at 10? Tank doesn't pour fast enough? Preheat tank, don't worry about preheating tank. Temp is critical. Don't worry about the temp dropping a few degrees. (some of this may be from another thread I found)

What are you so scared of? I'm cheap, don't want to waste the money. :tongue:

Maybe it's because I've not yet read a set of instructions.
 

MattKing

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RoboRepublic

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Well see, that's the thing. I learned how to fall off motorcycles when I was 9. I might also point out that a good part of your post appears to be written in Latin, or possibly Romulan.
Maybe it's because I've not yet read a set of instructions.

I've heard that digital is pretty cheap.
Behind this joke (cynical as it is), is a real point: if you don't want to spend money learning on a medium, maybe the medium isn't for you? You can take photos on a digital canvas for less $ per shot, and decent used digital bodies are cheaper than some MF film cameras.
Just one last note: its doubtful you'll mess up the chemical development in such a stellar way, that your photos won't be useable. Especially true for BW.
 
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Donald Qualls

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Developing black and white negatives is so easy that when I learned it (long before the Internet -- DARPAnet was only a couple years old and was still not public knowledge, even to technophiles) they were teaching children to do it. I learned at age nine, did it myself without supervision at age ten (bought stuff at a yard sale, mixed my developer, came up with a way to get enough dark to load the film in the tank, developed, stopped, fixed, washed, and hung the film).

In some ways, C-41 is easier than black and white -- one developer, one time, one temperature, for all C-41 films from ISO 80 to ISO 1600. Yes, there are additional steps in the canonical process (I use Flexicolor, the bleach and fixer are separate), but kits usually combine bleach and fix into blix and need the same number of bottles as black and white (a couple water washes and/or a stop bath, same as for black and white, won't add to your bottle collection). A water bath for temperature control is the only additional equipment you need (you should already have a thermometer for black and white, since you either need to control temperature or compensate for it).

A flatbed scanner that will give you good files from 35mm and 120 runs $500+ new, but you can usually find used ones on eBay for half that, sometimes less (I've got around $200 into mine, including shipping and having to buy negative carriers separately) -- and if you already have a quality digital camera (DSLR or mirrorless) it's fairly easy to use that to get your negatives into a computer -- and free software will do everything you need once you have digital images.

Also note that nothing to this point actually requires a darkroom -- a bathroom sink/tub, laundry tub, even a kitchen sink will handle all the water needs, a changing bag (evil things, but they don't require an equity loan) will let you get the film safely into the tank. Aside from scanning or enlarging, the equipment cost can be under $100 (or over, if you want to get fancy, but even in 2020 you can start for about $70 including chemicals if you buy some of the equipment used).

If money is a big deal, and you're capable of cooking without amputations or burns, you can mix your own developer from easily available stuff, make fixer from pool chemicals, and develop B&W for years with $30 worth of dry chemistry (I've done it). Film is still going to cost, though, so generally I'd suggest leaving mixing your own chemicals for after your confidence is high -- commercially packaged chemicals that have mixing instructions on the bag or bottle will improve your confidence that the chemistry isn't to blame when something goes wrong.

And yes, things will go wrong. I learned the basics in 1969, and I've had nearly blank film within the past year (bad developer, should have done a leader test before committing two rolls of film). Commercial labs that handle hundreds of rolls a day make mistakes, too -- not many, but not none. I don't like sending my film away, however -- and the only places locally to drop off my film no longer return the negatives; I get back just prints and (fairly low res, low quality) scans, and even that takes days, up to a week, because they send the film away, too. With the equipment in hand, and after springing for the chemicals, I can do as good a job as the send-out labs, and instead of $20/roll including shipping and two weeks to get my negatives back, I can have dry negatives ready to scan overnight and scan a 36 exposure roll at 30 megapixels per frame in a couple days of after-work free time.

And, after fifty years, I'll be making my own color prints next weekend.
 
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