Short report about the current Nikon F6 production in Sendai

[Theo Sulphate]

...
Camera's are all getting old and Electronics have a life span...

Electronics should have long term reliability, but it seems that mechanical cameras function very well for far longer. My 60 year old Exaktas work fine, even the slow and timed speeds. Same for M3's and F's and F2's.

Perhaps it is because there are so many electronic subsystems in cameras from the 1990's onwards that that increases the chance of failure in any one subsystem. When that happens, typically the camera is unusable.

 

[nolanr66]

Electronics should have long term reliability, but it seems that mechanical cameras function very well for far longer. My 60 year old Exaktas work fine, even the slow and timed speeds. Same for M3's and F's and F2's.

Perhaps it is because there are so many electronic subsystems in cameras from the 1990's onwards that that increases the chance of failure in any one subsystem. When that happens, typically the camera is unusable.

I have just had my share of camera's that had electrical problems with several Minolta's and a Nikon FE2 that I had repaired 2 different times. However other people have sailed along nicely with their camera's. But then I got the F100 and it's been fine for quite a long time now. I bought it used from KEH in LN- condition for about $400.00. It's been the best camera for me so far.

I always like the way the F2's looked. Never owned one and of course the M3 was built for a century of hard use. I will google up the Exakta as I do not know that one.

 

[Roger Cole]

I have had various mechanical things break on some cameras (mostly consumer level "plasticy" ones) and some that just need CLA/new foam, but I've never had an electronic system in one fail. Even the meter in my Yashicamat 124 works, and surprisingly well in that it agrees very closely with my Luna Pro SBC. But then I don't have any highly electronic cameras but I do have electronically controlled and auto-exposure ones. Both my Ricoh SLRs failed mechanically. One had the rewind lever break, the other just needs new seals. Both work fine electrically and the AE works fine, though the older one has been one stop off ever since it was new. I just set the film speed accordingly. Pentax LX - same, it all works. Mamiya 645 Pro with AE prism - the AE and metering (and everything else in the camera) works fine, but the plastic housing of the prism did crack and I use a not very noticeable strip of black electrical tape to hold it together.

I realize of course that this is very much a luck of the draw and YMMV kind of thing, and I don't have any of the much later AF/LCD panel type cameras.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

... I will google up the Exakta as I do not know that one.

http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/exakta/index.html

In particular, the VX or VXIIa models. I don't there's a plastic part in there.

 

[chromacomaphoto]

Well I went on my hike this morning. Turned out to be 4mi and 1300 feet of climbing. It was beautiful out there and once at the High Peaks area you could see for miles as it rained yesterday and the air was clear. There was even a bit of snow laying around which is the first time I have seen that. I just used my Domke F6 camera bag for a pack today. I carried the camera, a bottle of water and half a peanut butter and jelly sandwich that I ate once I got to the top. The F6 is a comfortable bag but withing limits of the time you will be carrying it. If I get a permit for Half Dome I will be using a regular backpackers pack as the weight is carried on your hips which makes the difference for an all day adventure.

For me the F100 works well as my photography is centered around the family. Pictures of everyone, the grandkids and the places we go. I took 18 photos of Pinnacles today using Delta 400. I have not enlarged anything beyond 8x10 in maybe 5 years now. I did make a couple 8x10's a few weeks ago and they are over the piano. I mounted them in those frames that requires no matting, kind of a document type thing. I like it and they have them at Michaels.. I guess the only camera that would make me break from Nikon is a Leica M6 which is to expensive for me but I wished I owned one anyway. The F6 is probably very nice but even used they are kind of expensive and I do not see that they would be any better for me then a F100. However 10 years from now the F6 might be my best option. Camera's are all getting old and Electronics have a life span and in 10 years a F6 may be the thing. Or just break down and buy a Leica and be done with it. Forever repairable and perfectly suited for general B/W photography.

The M6 is a great choice, I've had two. Have an M2 currently as I like the older all brass mechanics and feel. The M6 has got you covered for simple electronics that can last well and still be repaired plus mechanical functionality. If the electronics do go south or become unrepairable at some point, simply remove the batteries and it functions at all speeds and is now a 100% reliable and serviceable meterless Leica M anyway, just like an M2/3/4 or whatever. I much prefer the 'classic' (which was never really called that) than the TTL version but that's a different discussion.

 

[nolanr66]

I was looking at Craigslist today and there is a 1955 Leica with box, manual, lens on it. They advertised "never used" and they want $750.00. It's in San Francisco. If it's true then a collector will snap that up before the day is out. But back in my world l I think I am going to find a good Nikon F3. Not particularly light but they are smallish and it would be easy to carry. Rugged and aperture priority means I can fire it off while my Grand daughter is still in the same room. The F3 is a later Nikon model and there seems to be nice one's around. I saw one at Keeble and Schuchatt, Palo Alto, Calif recently for $199.00. I did not ask to check it out but sitting there it looked like a nice clean one. I am not going to buy it from them however because they look down on a simple B/W snapper. As a matter of fact I am not going back in there again. It's a stiff drive over there just to get talked down to just because I do not get an upgrade Digital camera every 2 years. I went in there to get a Domke F6 but apparently they do not like Domke any longer so I bought it from BHPhoto.

What model is a 1955 Leica. Is that an M3?

 

[Theo Sulphate]

... I am not going to buy it from them however because they look down on a simple B/W snapper. As a matter of fact I am not going back in there again. It's a stiff drive over there just to get talked down to just because I do not get an upgrade Digital camera every 2 years. I went in there to get a Domke F6 but apparently they do not like Domke any longer so I bought it from BHPhoto.

What model is a 1955 Leica. Is that an M3?

Most likely it is - but you'd have to check the serial number to be sure. Many web sites can provide the type based on serial number. There are variations - some without viewfinder preview levers, some double stroke, etc.

Good for you by "voting with your money" - those people should learn to make all customers feel welcome.

 

[BMbikerider]

I was looking at Craigslist today and there is a 1955 Leica with box, manual, lens on it. They advertised "never used" and they want $750.00. It's in San Francisco. If it's true then a collector will snap that up before the day is out. But back in my world l I think I am going to find a good Nikon F3. Not particularly light but they are smallish and it would be easy to carry. Rugged and aperture priority means I can fire it off while my Grand daughter is still in the same room. The F3 is a later Nikon model and there seems to be nice one's around. I saw one at Keeble and Schuchatt, Palo Alto, Calif recently for $199.00. I did not ask to check it out but sitting there it looked like a nice clean one. I am not going to buy it from them however because they look down on a simple B/W snapper. As a matter of fact I am not going back in there again. It's a stiff drive over there just to get talked down to just because I do not get an upgrade Digital camera every 2 years. I went in there to get a Domke F6 but apparently they do not like Domke any longer so I bought it from BHPhoto.

What model is a 1955 Leica. Is that an M3?

It could be a Leica 3G. They were both made at the same time as the early M3, but discontinued a year or so after the M2 was introduced.
(Around 1958 ish)

 

[nolanr66]

Pretty sure it's an M3.

 

[skorpiius]

Electronics should have long term reliability, but it seems that mechanical cameras function very well for far longer. My 60 year old Exaktas work fine, even the slow and timed speeds. Same for M3's and F's and F2's.

Perhaps it is because there are so many electronic subsystems in cameras from the 1990's onwards that that increases the chance of failure in any one subsystem. When that happens, typically the camera is unusable.

Electronics can in theory be repaired, more than just by replacing boards, ie solder redone, resistors, capacitors, etc replaced, maybe even some 'chips', but my concern is no one will have the necessary circuit schematics of how it all works together to troubleshoot what's failed.

 

[AgX]

But some electronic parts are proprietory chips.

 

[skorpiius]

But some electronic parts are proprietory chips.

It's true, if those burn out, it's toast.
I just suspect that failed electronic boards aren't always the proprietary chips being fried.

For example the audio deck in my old Nissan Maxima is flaky, as is the charging port in my Asus laptop. Both are poor quality soldering issues, fixable by resoldering.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Pretty sure it's an M3.

Wondering why the self timer lever is down...

...someone cocked it, but didn't trip the release.?

...it's stuck in that position?

Would like to know how long it's been that way. It's an odd state for the camera to be left in. Also wondering what else may be amiss.

 

[nolanr66]

Wondering why the self timer lever is down...

...someone cocked it, but didn't trip the release.?

...it's stuck in that position?

Would like to know how long it's been that way. It's an odd state for the camera to be left in. Also wondering what else may be amiss.

I agree it's kind of fishy. It's advertised as unused but it's in the half case with the timer down and you wonder why wouldn't an unused camera just be in the box instead of a half case with a camera bag in the background. Anyway I was just curious what it was. I am not interested in it myself and would not know enough about Leica's to get a fair shake anyway..

 

[Xmas]

Electronics can in theory be repaired, more than just by replacing boards, ie solder redone, resistors, capacitors, etc replaced, maybe even some 'chips', but my concern is no one will have the necessary circuit schematics of how it all works together to troubleshoot what's failed.

Even a standard transistor or capacitor replacement can be difficult as the modern ones have higher performance.
Many are static sensitive and were pigs to get to work in development.

You need to reverse engineer...

But the flexi rigid circuit boards were not designed to be flexed to many times.

Electronic ones pigs to repair.

 

[nolanr66]

Even a standard transistor or capacitor replacement can be difficult as the modern ones have higher performance.
Many are static sensitive and were pigs to get to work in development.

You need to reverse engineer...

But the flexi rigid circuit boards were not designed to be flexed to many times.

Electronic ones pigs to repair.

I guess my solution is to get a throw away electronic camera and if a circuit board goes out then I will dispose of the camera.. After looking over BHPhoto and KEH for a hiking camera I decided on a FG in EX+ condition for $39.00. I have a diopter eyepiece already and will use my AFD 50mm or 28mm lens on it.

edit: I bought the camera but you need to spend $49.00 for free shipping. I spent 45min trying to figure out what to buy for $10.00 for some reason. Anyway I bought a Nikon SB15 flash for $8.00 which works with the camera and a Nikon body cap for it when it's not being used. It will dine on the finest B/W film for the rest of it's plastic electronic life. It certainly does not help keep the F6 in production but it was about $2300.00 cheaper and it gets to see the High Peaks at Pinnacles pretty soon. The view is pretty nice.

 

[Roger Cole]

If I need a few bucks to hit a free shipping point I can always use more film so I throw in enough of whatever I'm lowest on. Just a thought for next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.

 

[nolanr66]

If I need a few bucks to hit a free shipping point I can always use more film so I throw in enough of whatever I'm lowest on. Just a thought for next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.

I did not know KEH sold film but a quick check shows they do. I could have just added a couple rolls of Tri-x. Well I will know the next time. Thanks for the tip.

 

[chromacomaphoto]

I did not know KEH sold film but a quick check shows they do. I could have just added a couple rolls of Tri-x. Well I will know the next time. Thanks for the tip.

Me too, I never think of film when I think of KEH for some reason. Noted for the future.

 

[Anon Ymous]

... But the flexi rigid circuit boards were not designed to be flexed to many times.

Electronic ones pigs to repair.

I know this is far fetched, but flat flex pcbs can be replicated fairly easily. There are many pcb services out there (well, China actually) where you can order flat flex pcbs in low quantities and fairly cheaply, ie <100$. Still, the biggest problem are dead custom integrated circuits.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I know this is far fetched, but flat flex pcbs can be replicated fairly easily. There are many pcb services out there (well, China actually) where you can order flat flex pcbs in low quantities and fairly cheaply, ie <100$. Still, the biggest problem are dead custom integrated circuits.

Are VLSI and later chips more prone to failure? I have LSI devices from the mid-1970's that seem to be ok - just old electrolytic caps drying out.

My F4s's from the mid 1990's still work fine. Can we expect F6's to be working 20 years from now as well?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Theo, I was mostly talking about physical damage. Internally, the circuit might be ok, but a completely broken pin - contact renders it useless. Without pretending to be an expert in this, I'd say the devices themselves are not really prone to failure. Some modern ic packages, like BGA, are certainly more sensitive than earlier ones, but I doubt that they were used in film cameras. On the other hand, bare dies have probably been used and there's nothing you can do to "fix" them. A bare die is what is hidden under blobs of black epoxy on pcbs. Another thing that IMHO can fail easily are the lcd displays typically found in the latest film cameras.

 

[David Heintz]

Thanks - this thread has been extremely informative. I have just recently gotten into film, to compliment my Nikon D810 and Df. Like everything, I went a bit overboard, and have the F3HP, F4s, F5, and a "mint" F6 that had only 6 rolls of film run through it. (There is a digital counter.) The F6 is my favorite of all cameras. However, I have been a bit apprehensive concerning my copy, as it has a low (7xxx) serial number, and I wondered if the film count could have been set back to zero by removing the internal battery. No matter - today I purchased a Nikon factory refurbished F6, for a good price. If it has a reasonably high SN and is in great shape, I will keep it and sell my original. Otherwise, I can return my purchase inside of 30 days.

Ater a few months I have developed a system that yields pretty good film scans. I have a local guy that develops film (not E6) in two days. As long as he is around, and as long as I can get Ektar and Portra, I am good...

 

[RattyMouse]

Thanks - this thread has been extremely informative. I have just recently gotten into film, to compliment my Nikon D810 and Df. Like everything, I went a bit overboard, and have the F3HP, F4s, F5, and a "mint" F6 that had only 6 rolls of film run through it. (There is a digital counter.) The F6 is my favorite of all cameras. However, I have been a bit apprehensive concerning my copy, as it has a low (7xxx) serial number, and I wondered if the film count could have been set back to zero by removing the internal battery. No matter - today I purchased a Nikon factory refurbished F6, for a good price. If it has a reasonably high SN and is in great shape, I will keep it and sell my original. Otherwise, I can return my purchase inside of 30 days.

Ater a few months I have developed a system that yields pretty good film scans. I have a local guy that develops film (not E6) in two days. As long as he is around, and as long as I can get Ektar and Portra, I am good...

Welcome to APUG. You should really shoot some Acros 100 through your F6. You'd be amazed at what you get.

 

[Chris Livsey]

However, I have been a bit apprehensive concerning my copy, as it has a low (7xxx) serial number, and I wondered if the film count could have been set back to zero by removing the internal battery.

Welcome indeed to APUG and to a fine camera, I enjoy my copy a great deal.
On your point above, AFAIK the internal battery is a rechargeable from the inserted "shooting" batteries and is inaccessible to mere users, the shutter count is internal and readable by a service centre but the film count you quote can be re-set from the menu quite easily by the user and thus cannot be relied on S/H.
Page 121 in the manual:

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/F6-en.pdf