Shopping for a Spot Meter

Paul Ozzello · May 10, 2021

Just a FYI

I forget on what thread I read this but some people were finding that their spot meters were off by a full stop when comparing them to a sekonic or other incident meter. The Pentax measures EV and bases the values on iso100 no matter what the selected iso - so EV6 is always EV6. The sekonic and minoltas however change the EV value based on the selected iso - so EV6 becomes EV5 at iso50. Both meters however calculate the proper exposure setting.

SrMi · May 10, 2021

GLS said:
Please see the last paragraph of my post #71 above. I have the L-758D. The 858 may differ slightly in operation; I haven't used it so couldn't say, but imagine it must be similar.

Sorry that I missed your post.

This is how I do it with my 858:
- turn on the meter (1 to 3 sec. wait, depending on how long it was off)
- turn off Averaging & Compensation "buttons" (from previous measurement)
- measure the darkest part that I want to have details (Zone III)
- turn on Averaging and Compensation "buttons" (moves the measurement from Zone V to Zone III)
- check the scene for excessive EV difference

This is how I do it with Pentax:
- measure the darkest part
- move the EV value to Zone III
- check that no part exceeds the EV value of zone VIII

In addition, 858 has a touch screen that is more annoying to use than the buttons of your 758.

Sirius Glass · May 10, 2021

wiltw said:
If you simply take three brands of cameras and meters, you may well find that they do not all agree with each other!

Then pick up all the meters and have them calibrated. Problem solved and they all agree.

wiltw · May 10, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Then pick up all the meters and have them calibrated. Problem solved and they all agree.

What fun is that?!

Sirius Glass · May 10, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Then pick up all the meters and have them calibrated. Problem solved and they all agree.

wiltw said:
What fun is that?!

Life is short. Find other ways to waste time.

MattKing · May 10, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Then pick up all the meters and have them calibrated. Problem solved and they all agree.

With George Milton retired, "who you goin' call?"

GLS · May 11, 2021

SrMi said:
This is how I do it with my 858:
- turn on the meter (1 to 3 sec. wait, depending on how long it was off)
- turn off Averaging & Compensation "buttons" (from previous measurement)
- measure the darkest part that I want to have details (Zone III)
- turn on Averaging and Compensation "buttons" (moves the measurement from Zone V to Zone III)
- check the scene for excessive EV difference

Yes you can do the same with the 758 using the "mid tone" button in conjunction with the jog wheel. However I find my method faster as it requires less overall measurements and button presses to check the entire scene, which can be an advantage in rapidly changing light.

The mid tone adjustment method can sometimes be useful with slide film, setting the brightest highlights in which you want detail at around +2 and checking visually on the EV scale where other logged tones in the scene fall. But again, the same can be accomplished with a single reading of those highlights and then performing the other checks & adjustments mentally; of course this can potentially be prone to human error, especially if you're rushing and/or having to make additional adjustments for bellows/filter factors etc in your head, but no metering method is fool proof and as with anything else practice makes it second nature.

Everyone has their own personal quirks of metering. This method works well for me.

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2021

MattKing said:
With George Milton retired, "who you goin' call?"

Spectra Cine Inc unless I find someone near by in Hollywood that the studios use.

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2021

Kodachromeguy said:
By whom, where, how?

Spectra Cine Inc

RalphLambrecht · May 11, 2021

wiltw said:
Fred Picker used to modify these, and also add a Zone scale for the dial to make it easier to use for ZS...does anyone offer an equivalent scale now, for those wishing to use this meter for ZS?

I offer one for free:

alanrockwood · May 15, 2021

Revisiting the question of how necessary is a spotmeter, and in particular how necessary is it for the zone system, I did a little historical research. According to Adams, he and Archer devised the zone system in 1939-1940. However, spotmeters were not commercially available until 1948. It seems then that it was possible to use the zone system without owning a spotmeter, unless Adams and Archer built their own spotmeter before it was commercially available, which seems very unlikely. Therefore one can conclude that a spotmeter is a very useful device when applied to the zone system, but it doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary to use a spotmeter in order to use the zone system.

Sirius Glass · May 15, 2021

alanrockwood said:
Revisiting the question of how necessary is a spotmeter, and in particular how necessary is it for the zone system, I did a little historical research. According to Adams, he and Archer devised the zone system in 1939-1940. However, spotmeters were not commercially available until 1948. It seems then that it was possible to use the zone system without owning a spotmeter, unless Adams and Archer built their own spotmeter before it was commercially available, which seems very unlikely. Therefore one can conclude that a spotmeter is a very useful device when applied to the zone system, but it doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary to use a spotmeter in order to use the zone system.

Never the less, using the Zone System with a Spot Meter works well and can bring out shadow detail.

Lachlan Young · May 15, 2021

alanrockwood said:
Revisiting the question of how necessary is a spotmeter, and in particular how necessary is it for the zone system, I did a little historical research. According to Adams, he and Archer devised the zone system in 1939-1940. However, spotmeters were not commercially available until 1948. It seems then that it was possible to use the zone system without owning a spotmeter, unless Adams and Archer built their own spotmeter before it was commercially available, which seems very unlikely. Therefore one can conclude that a spotmeter is a very useful device when applied to the zone system, but it doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary to use a spotmeter in order to use the zone system.

You can meter the contrast range of a scene and set suitable exposure with a reflected meter, a limited area reflected meter (ie a spot meter) or an incident meter - all that spot or incident metering offers is tighter control over what you are reading without worrying about extraneous influences wandering in. What matters is that the meter be easily indexable - which many TTL meters aren't (the Olympus OM-3 and OM-4 being honourable exceptions).

PerTulip · Jun 9, 2021

After months of watching used-stuff sites, I finally found a spot meter. A Sekonic L-758D Cine in great condition for an excellent price.

eli griggs · Jul 12, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
Not many people know this. The bulkier Pentax V also has the IRE scale and you may, of course, attach a Zone scale.

I'm very happy with my Pentax V, and though I'd love to have another Minolta M, I tried a used Minolta F and it crapped out on me in the first day.

I use several a log meters and the Luna Pro F is fine, though I'd no consider their 'spot' attachment as any where close to the much needed 1° spot a real spot meter sports.

Digital is nice, but analog is generally built for a rougher handling, IMO.

Robert Canis · Jul 12, 2021

If you want to utilise the Zone System then either the Pentax Spotmeter or Soligor Spot Sensor are your best options by far as you can easily read and place your zones. I also own the Sekonic L508 but placing your highs/lows on modern(ish) meters is way too tricky and requires too much brainpower when working quickly! I use it purely for incident readings.

abruzzi · Jul 14, 2021

Robert Canis said:
If you want to utilise the Zone System then either the Pentax Spotmeter or Soligor Spot Sensor are your best options by far as you can easily read and place your zones. I also own the Sekonic L508 but placing your highs/lows on modern(ish) meters is way too tricky and requires too much brainpower when working quickly! I use it purely for incident readings.

I find setting the high and low on my L-508 super easy. Unfortunately it only has two memories so I clear memories (one button press), take the high reading and save to a memory (one button to take the reading and one button to save), take the low reading and save to memory (one plus one again). Then I take a reading on the subject of the photo, but I don't save to memory. Now I have three readings (two in memory and one active) and I can see all three as marks on the aperture scale along the bottom. I roll the wheel to set the shutter speed, and the three dots move to reflect the shutter speed selected. Its pretty easy to see how many stops are between the high and low. I've never used a Pentax Spotmeter, but I have a hard time imagining an easier approach than what my Sekonic provides (assuming three readings are sufficient), but then the Pentax has no memories so you're working out of your head.

To be fair, I don't use the zone system, but I shoot a reasonable amount of E6 film on 4x5, and I use the technique above for that. Mostly to make sure the scene has no more than 5 stops, high to low.

Robert Canis · Jul 14, 2021

abruzzi said:
I find setting the high and low on my L-508 super easy. Unfortunately it only has two memories so I clear memories (one button press), take the high reading and save to a memory (one button to take the reading and one button to save), take the low reading and save to memory (one plus one again). Then I take a reading on the subject of the photo, but I don't save to memory. Now I have three readings (two in memory and one active) and I can see all three as marks on the aperture scale along the bottom. I roll the wheel to set the shutter speed, and the three dots move to reflect the shutter speed selected. Its pretty easy to see how many stops are between the high and low. I've never used a Pentax Spotmeter, but I have a hard time imagining an easier approach than what my Sekonic provides (assuming three readings are sufficient), but then the Pentax has no memories so you're working out of your head.

To be fair, I don't use the zone system, but I shoot a reasonable amount of E6 film on 4x5, and I use the technique above for that. Mostly to make sure the scene has no more than 5 stops, high to low.

Your method is certainly effective for E6 where the dynamic range is low in comparison to B&W where we can have as much as 8 stops but when using the ZS we are exposing for the shadows then placing them on Z3. When doing this with either the Pentax or Soligor (and with an adhesive ZS sticker attached) you can see, instantly, what zone the highs fall on which then dictates development time and/or the need for graduated filters. Also, if I'm using a red filter, for example, I just move the ring back 2 stops and I can see all aperture/shutter speed variables at a glance.
One last thing if I may, Sekonic spot meters are not at all good in low light. They really struggle at dawn/dusk whereas my Soligor goes down an additional 2 EV to my 508.

abruzzi · Jul 15, 2021

I guess I don't understand how additional stops of dynaic range really make any difference, but again, I don't do zone system so I only know it from a very high level perspective. I use the exact same process when shooting B&W film with 8-10 stops of dynamic range.

Sirius Glass · Jul 15, 2021

abruzzi said:
I guess I don't understand how additional stops of dynaic range really make any difference, but again, I don't do zone system so I only know it from a very high level perspective. I use the exact same process when shooting B&W film with 8-10 stops of dynamic range.

Let me simplify the Zone System and the dynamic range:

Color negative and black & white negative film at best has 14 f/stops, usually less as you noted
If one uses a spot meter to read the darkest shadow area that has detail one wants to capture, then set it in Zone
- Zone 2 close down 3 f/stops
- Zone 3 close down 2 f/stops
- Zone 4 close down 1 f/stop
The develop normally. The films dynamic range should still keep the high lights.

Does that help?

wiltw · Jul 15, 2021

abruzzi said:
I find setting the high and low on my L-508 super easy. Unfortunately it only has two memories so I clear memories (one button press), take the high reading and save to a memory (one button to take the reading and one button to save), take the low reading and save to memory (one plus one again). Then I take a reading on the subject of the photo, but I don't save to memory. Now I have three readings (two in memory and one active) and I can see all three as marks on the aperture scale along the bottom. I roll the wheel to set the shutter speed, and the three dots move to reflect the shutter speed selected. Its pretty easy to see how many stops are between the high and low. I've never used a Pentax Spotmeter, but I have a hard time imagining an easier approach than what my Sekonic provides (assuming three readings are sufficient), but then the Pentax has no memories so you're working out of your head.

To be fair, I don't use the zone system, but I shoot a reasonable amount of E6 film on 4x5, and I use the technique above for that. Mostly to make sure the scene has no more than 5 stops, high to low.

I do not use Sekonic, but use Minolta. Per the capability of my meter, I do not need to use lots of memory storage locations to assess a scene.

I press button to meter a midtone, press button to put that into Memory using
I press and hold to meter a shadow and read directly difference in -EV (below reading A) where the darkest shadow falls
(While still holding button) I meter a highlight and read directly difference in +EV (above reading A) where the brightest highlight falls

three total presses of buttons, but one one memory location needed to do this. I would be surprised if your Sekonic could not do the same.
(I do have the ability to store a Shadow reading, store a Highlight reading, display both points on the scale and it will compute an Average of the two readings and display that third point on the scale...but I can immediately know the full dynamic range of the scene with accuracy to tenths without counting the f/stops between low and the high on the displayed scale which is only displaying to 0.33EV increments)

Alexander Starbuck · Jan 16, 2022

SrMi said:
Sorry that I missed your post.

This is how I do it with my 858:
.....
In addition, 858 has a touch screen that is more annoying to use than the buttons of your 758.

I apologise for hijacking the thread (but maybe I am really not): may I ask how you find using your 858 in the field? Like when hiking, in the rain, snow, cold weather, mountains...? I am trying to decide between a used 558 and a new 858, one is more "tactile" with buttons, while the other is a touchscreen version. Buttons are preferred but the price is the same; 558 is available only used while the other one is new from store with warranty.

Also, there is one 508 used, for signifficantly lower price. Good option or not?

Many thanks for your reply!
Alex

SrMi · Jan 16, 2022

Alexander Starbuck said:
I apologise for hijacking the thread (but maybe I am really not): may I ask how you find using your 858 in the field? Like when hiking, in the rain, snow, cold weather, mountains...? I am trying to decide between a used 558 and a new 858, one is more "tactile" with buttons, while the other is a touchscreen version. Buttons are preferred but the price is the same; 558 is available only used while the other one is new from store with warranty.

Also, there is one 508 used, for signifficantly lower price. Good option or not?

Many thanks for your reply!
Alex

Hi Alex,
I am using Pentax Digital Spotmeter when going in the field. I find it simpler and quicker than the 858, therefore 858 stays at home.
- Srdjan

Alexander Starbuck · Jan 16, 2022

SrMi said:
Hi Alex,
I am using Pentax Digital Spotmeter when going in the field. I find it simpler and quicker than the 858, therefore 858 stays at home.
- Srdjan

Ah, so. OK got it! Thanks

BrianShaw · Jan 16, 2022

I’ve used a L-558 in most of those conditions. It’s a tough meter that doesn’t seem to be bothered by cold or rain. I worried that the display would hate the cold, and maybe in extreme cold it would. Battery is another concern so always have a fresh spare. In rain, I keep it under my coat until I need it but some moisture doesn’t seem to penetrate the housing at all. I’m all conditions, though, it’s bulky and unless I really need spot metering I’ll tend to use an old Weston meter in the field.

I don’t know what the additional capabilities or benefits are between the models, but for that much money I’d probably be oriented toward the most current.

Shopping for a Spot Meter

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