Shooting dark colored flowers in B&W

[stradibarrius]

My wife raises orchids as her hobby. So it seems that I always have a selection of deep rich colored flowers to photograph. I really want to shot them in B&W but they always seem flat and blah!!!
Here is an example.
Suggestions? Filters?
this was shot with a Nikon F100 and Ilford XP2 Super

 

[polyglot]

Could you try more interesting light? Instead of a flat diffuse light, try something with a bit more direction to it, i.e. harder / a smaller source.

Or colour film

 

[Denis R]

it's the film!

use infrared film to see what we normally can't

that will have people wonder how they look so different

also same with UV

flowers list

flowers intro

comparison

 

[thebdt]

Lighting lighting lighting. Think of it as a face portrait: you need a main light and then a fill light, with the lights at a power/strength ratio, to create contrast. I recently shot a protea flower, which was very dark:

 

[skyrick]

Strad, I like your example photo fine. I do like Denis' idea of IR though.

Rick

 

[Anon Ymous]

Strad, if your flowers are indeed dark, then it has to be a metering error. You see, you've got a very dark background and meters can easily be fooled. Your F100 has a spot meter that you can use and meter reasonably, depending on your experience. That said, every camera with any working meter will make more or less good suggestions if you place a grey card correctly. On the other hand, proper illumination can make an indifferent picture far more appealing.

 

[jeffreyg]

If you spot meter off a white flower your reading will be incorrect. The meter sees everything as 18% gray. You would have to adjust your setting so as to avoid underexposure. Beside lighting effects consider filters. The white flowers may be slightly green so a light green filter will lighten them keeping in mind filter factors. Frequently a yellow filter helps with white flowers. At any rate filters of the same color as the subject will lighten and of the opposite color will darken. The gray card is a good idea but also check the difference between the shadows and highlights. If it is too great you will either burn out the highlights or lose detail in the shadows. Using IR film requires an adjustment in focusing - the lens should have a red "R" focus then move the focus ring so the focus line is on the "R". Also IR film may require a filter for the correct tones.

 

[timk]

I would consider:

1. Use an incident light meter or spot off an 18% grey card

2. Increase your lighting (you are probably after more contrast)

3. Push the film / use a low latitude film for more contrast

I would recommend #1 and either #2 or #3

Your problem is probably a combination of over exposure and low contrast in the flowers not using the full range of the negative.

Filters are great for when you have flowers among leaves/foliage that are a similar tone, so you'll use a filter of the colour of the flowers or leaves to lighten/darken part of the image to make the flower stand out. Not applicable in this case since you're using a black background. The only reason why you may want to use filters is if the flowers have different colours in them that you want to lighten/darken in relation to the other colours.

I'd imagine that you wanted to capture the subtle tonalities in the flower petals, with a high latitude film and a low contrast scene, you loose this tonality because you don't use the full range of the negative.

 

[df cardwell]

Every black and white film SEE COLORS DIFFERENTLY. It is intentional.

Many flowers are nearly impossible to photograph accurately, and have been used for
generations to check an imaging system

Here's a suggestion that might seem silly, but it is what dinosaurs did in the Pre Digital Era.

1. Begin with a test target of known density and color. The Gretag Macbeth Color Checker has been the standard for decades.

Dead Link Removed

2. Using the film you like, light the card, meter it and shoot it and see what you get. You may need to filter your film to come close to the Macbeth color patches.

3. Along the way, you'll see how you are reproducing known b&w densities.

4. You might find that you simply can't record the orchid colors with XP2, and need to switch to a film which matches the flower's spectrum. Ask successful orchid shooters what THEY use.

 

[Rick A]

You could change the direction of your lighting from front to side(or bottom, or top). If the flowers are dark, then use a lighter background,and spot meter using an 18% gray card. I carry both black and a white cloth when I am out photoing flowers, my wife or daughter hold it so I can shoot, black is the favorite. In the studio, a single light source with a snoot gives incredible results. Experiment with aiming the light from different angles to get the best showing.

Rick

 

[DanielStone]

pull a dean collins, and light it with one light .

use a mirror to give you that 'fill-light', a smaller mirror with give you some nice specularity.

but yes, shoot this like a portrait, filters and all.

-Dan

 

[stradibarrius]

Thanks and I really like the shot of the Protea flower!

 

[keithwms]

Orchids have very interesting vein structure, and delicately fleshy petals. With them, I tend to go tighter and with back lighting or very shallow side lighting, plus a bit of fill. I treat one light as a texture light, the other as fill. Window light also makes excellent, warm fill for flowers (and people!).

Another think you might do is make a gobo to give yourself a well-defined shaft of light. The lightest petals are so reflective, they will give you some very nice, bright outlining.

 

[stradibarrius]

Keith, your "Pasta Shell" photo in your gallery exhibits the lighting and your imagination...for some reason shots like that catch my eye???

 

[Anscojohn]

My wife raises orchids as her hobby. So it seems that I always have a selection of deep rich colored flowers to photograph. I really want to shot them in B&W but they always seem flat and blah!!!
Here is an example.
Suggestions? Filters?
this was shot with a Nikon F100 and Ilford XP2 Super

********
Yes to other comments about the light being too flat. For myself, I would find the task given you by your bride a tremendous photographic challenge.
The good part, though (at least for me) is that her task does not require use of a stepladder.

As a former orchid raiser, I can say your need is to show the subtle shadings and different colored striations in the flowers. I would begin my experiments with slightly angled semi-diffuse lighting. I would use a film which has the ability to render subtle detail: the old Adox KB14 comes to mind here. Perhaps EFKE 25 or Ilford Pan F. I would soup the film in Beutler's, or D23 1:3or Rodinal 1:85. I might even try this (in my personal opinion) crapola of stand development for once.
If such approaches did not produce acceptable results, I would then try filtration to lighten the striations.
As I mentioned above, this would be a real challenge for me. Oh, I forgot to mention: certain flowers (I do not know if orchids are one of the type)
reflect light (infrared?) in a part of the spectrum not perceived visually by the human eye, but which can be recorded on film. It is called, iirc, "anomalous reflectance."
And XP2 is certainly not, in my unhumble opinion, a film fit for anything.
This is a job for real film and, perhaps, a larger negative.
Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[keithwms]

Keith, your "Pasta Shell" photo in your gallery exhibits the lighting and your imagination...for some reason shots like that catch my eye???

Thanks very much, very kind of you. Incidentally the Pt/Pd print of that is coming along well and is infinitely better than the scan. Have been working through some coating issues though.

Anyway I always look for simple and rhythmic forms when it comes to macro etc. For me, it's a nice retreat fom the complexities of big landscapes etc.

Anyway the 'shells' photo was a very typical lighting setup for me, very simple, with plenty of space to go in and move the subject around.

Incidentally it wasn't until I used fuji fp100b that I realized what was wrong with my lighting. fp100b gives slidelike range and contrast, and once I saw what it does and liked it, I spent time trying to recreate the look, through contrastier lighting, with ordinary film.

 

[stradibarrius]

Sorry for my ignorance...what is a fp100b??

 

[keithwms]

fp100b is the 'fuji-roid' instant film.