Shooting at hyperfocal distance on a 4x5? How?

l2oBiN · Oct 7, 2010

The other day it just dawned on me that determaning where the camera should be focused at in order to achieve hyperfocal distance is not so easy as with manual focus 35mm gear, which has distance markings on the lens. Since such markings are not present on a 4x5 lens or the camera, how do you know where to focus in order to achieve thehyperfocal distance?

Brian Legge · Oct 7, 2010

I shoot a variety of cameras, many without marking, and don't look this info up often (ie it isn't something I need quick access to). When I do need it, I just look it up using the DOFMaster iphone app. I could create a reference sheet and carry it around with me but I already had the phone and the app was a couple dollars.

Q.G. · Oct 7, 2010

What does the app tell you, what is on your reference sheet?

I don't have an answer either, but why not figure out what the subject of the photo is, put the focus on that, and use DoF to control how it relates to the rest of the picture?
Hyperfocal focusing is allowing a calculator to determine what in your picture will be sharp and what will not. Do you really want that?

nickandre · Oct 7, 2010

Focus on the far, tilt to the near, tilt and refocus, till all is clear.

Don't ask me where I heard that.

The ground glass with a magnifier provides a fairly accurate judgement of focus.

Maris · Oct 7, 2010

I do it in either of two easy ways:

First calculate the hyperfocal distance for the desired parameters; aperture, sharpness criterion, etc. Then place something one hyperfocal distance away and focus on it. Lock the focussing rack at that point...job done.

Alternatively, first focus on infinity and note the position of the focussing rack. Then focus on the nearest thing that has to be in focus. Note the new position of the focussing rack. Finally move the focussing rack exactly half way between the two positions and lock it down. That's the hyperfocal distance for the (still unknown) aperture that will capture near and far points sharply. Calculate the needed aperture from the distance between near and far rack positions. Set the aperture on the lens and shoot...job done.

I must say in practice that getting deep focus in 4x5 photographs using the hyperfocal method tends to involve small lens apertures and the associated problems of long shutter speeds, subject movement, and sharpness killing diffraction effects. Using camera movements to tilt the plane of focus to suit the subject is a more powerful and versatile technique.

removed account4 · Oct 7, 2010

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/guides/dof/hyperfocal2.html

you plug in your lens info and camera format
it tells you the rest ...

good luck !
john

Q.G. · Oct 7, 2010

jnanian said:
http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/guides/dof/hyperfocal2.html

you plug in your lens info and camera format
it tells you the rest ...

good luck !
john

But where, oh where, do you find a distance scale on a 4x5 camera, that does not have a distance scale?

l2oBiN · Oct 7, 2010

Calculating the hyperfocus distance is not a problem, but calculating how to focus the lens to the hyperfocal distance is. I agree, camera movements are quite helpful, but they cannot always solve the problem if multiple sized objects on different planned are to be included in the area to be sharp. Eg . Shooting in a tight rainforest.

Q.G. · Oct 7, 2010

tiberiustibz said:
Focus on the far, tilt to the near, tilt and refocus, till all is clear.

Don't ask me where I heard that.

It will not have been on a Sinar P users meeting. They will stop after "tilt to the near".

removed account4 · Oct 7, 2010

you can make a distance scale for your 4x5.
its not that hard ...
if you have a 35mm, you can use that as your
"distance meter" ..
focus on the same thing with the 4x5,
jot down the distance ( tape measure )
as "scaled on the 35mm" ... then repeat.
it can be done for every lens ... and doesn't need
to be every 3 feet.
if you don't have a 35mm, then you will have to
guestimate distances ..

Marco B · Oct 8, 2010

Maris said:
Alternatively, first focus on infinity and note the position of the focussing rack. Then focus on the nearest thing that has to be in focus. Note the new position of the focussing rack. Finally move the focussing rack exactly half way between the two positions and lock it down. That's the hyperfocal distance for the (still unknown) aperture that will capture near and far points sharply. Calculate the needed aperture from the distance between near and far rack positions. Set the aperture on the lens and shoot...job done.

I think the description Maris gave is one of the easiest methods. You just need to focus on the far and near points, set focus half way, and set the required aperture.

For the required optimal aperture, I use the following table which I always carry with me. D is the distance (in mm) the focussing rack moves when you focus far and near. The table is from this webpage, which also gives all the technical details of how it was derived.

Table of optimal fstops (2). D in millimetre.
This shows you the best value of the f-stop to use.

D F
1 16.6
2 22.6
3 32.2
4 32.6
5 32.9
6 45.2
7 45.4
8 45.6
9 45.8
10 64

M.A.Longmore · Oct 8, 2010

.
Hi l2oBiN,

It seems like wherever you go,
and whatever the question is.
Someone has to mention that
" There Is An App, For That ! "

Ron
.

Steve Smith · Oct 8, 2010

Ron LarFor4X5 said:
It seems like wherever you go,
and whatever the question is.
Someone has to mention that
" There Is An App, For That ! "

Perhaps there is but if you don't own (and don't intend owning) anything to run it on then it's not of much use to you!

Steve.

Steve Smith · Oct 8, 2010

tiberiustibz said:
Focus on the far, tilt to the near, tilt and refocus, till all is clear.

Don't ask me where I heard that.

Here?

I have read that too. I have also repeated it in reply to a similar question (which made me sound more of an expert than I actually am).

Steve.

2F/2F · Oct 8, 2010

The way I view it, hyperfocal focusing is a compromise that is of best use when sloppy shooting (i.e. not taking the time to focus on what you want sharpest) is a necessity to get the shots you want to get (i.e. in cases in which you do not have the time to focus on that which you want sharpest, and simply getting things within the depth of field, and not necessarily critically sharp, will suffice). The movements on most view cameras will allow you to orient the plane of critical focus so that it runs through the subjects that you want to appear sharpest in the print. On a tripod with a view camera, you have the time and the tools to get exactly what you want perfectly in focus, so why not use them?

However, this being said, if you want to hyperfocal focus anyhow, I would either make D of F scales for your camera, or make charts, rather than calculating for each situation. There is a chart on the back of my Linhofs that I can shoot for you if you would like. It lists different lenses and such. You can look at the photo and copy the information for the lenses that you have, laminate it, and put it in your camera case.

You could also get a LF camera that already has the D of F scales built in, such as a Super Speed Graphic.

stevebrot · Oct 8, 2010

tiberiustibz said:
Focus on the far, tilt to the near, tilt and refocus, till all is clear...

I like it!

While hyperfocal sounds like a good idea at first, I am with @2F/2F. First off, it is a compromise that provides "acceptable" focus at best. Second, useful hyperfocal distances with most large format gear require shooting at tiny apertures and with attendant longer exposure times. Your camera's movements are your best friend for near-far focus issues.

Steve

mjs · Oct 8, 2010

I always figured that the ground glass was there for a reason...

Mike

BetterSense · Oct 8, 2010

While hyperfocal sounds like a good idea at first, I am with @2F/2F. First off, it is a compromise that provides "acceptable" focus at best.

I have built homemade 4x5 cameras that, at f/32, were sharp (meaning visibly sharp in an 11x14 print) from abut 8-10 feet from the camera to infinity.

Second, useful hyperfocal distances with most large format gear require shooting at tiny apertures and with attendant longer exposure times.

With Tmax400, f/32 means 1/100s daylight exposures. The horror. How did people ever take pictures back when film was ASA 8 ?

RalphLambrecht · Oct 8, 2010

Maris said:
... Alternatively, first focus on infinity and note the position of the focussing rack. Then focus on the nearest thing that has to be in focus. Note the new position of the focussing rack. Finally move the focussing rack exactly half way between the two positions and lock it down. That's the hyperfocal distance for the (still unknown) aperture that will capture near and far points sharply. Calculate the needed aperture from the distance between near and far rack positions. Set the aperture on the lens and shoot...job done. ...

That's a good method. You'll find some tools to do this with here:

Dead Link Removed

Just scroll doen to 'Depth-of-Focus Ruler'.

Shooting at hyperfocal distance on a 4x5? How?

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