Shocked at how much bulk TMY-2 costs
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Pretty sure @MattKing nailed it on the head earlier when he said the B&W pricing had to reflect what Kodak could charge for color film. They are running flat out on color film production at the moment, but as far as I can tell are down to one coating production line, the one built in about 1990. That means any time they are not making color film, they are losing money unless B&W profits match or nearly match color profits since they are taking up time on the same line.
The weird thing is that since confectioning is a bottleneck (supply issues, not enough lines), you’d think they would want to sell more bulk product.
Anyone know if Kodak sources their triacetate from the same ex-ORWO plant (IPI Industries) that everyone else in Europe does?
The weird thing is that since confectioning is a bottleneck (supply issues, not enough lines), you’d think they would want to sell more bulk product.
Anyone know if Kodak sources their triacetate from the same ex-ORWO plant (IPI Industries) that everyone else in Europe does?
Disturbing newsreel footage comes to mind.
In the golden age of still film photography, Kodak was making a lot of niche products that were fan favorites but probably not particularly profitable. They were never getting rich by selling Panatomic X but as long as other products were making money, it was on the shelf. The development and marketing of tabular grain films brought the retirement of many long time emulsions that were close in speed to the new films. The core group of films that were good sellers before the downturn are the ones that are on the market today.
The digital revolution brought significant changes to the film manufacturers in a relatively short period of time. Kodak was immensely profitable in the late 1990s and filing for bankruptcy a decade later. Their ability to continue to manufacture film was tested by an ever weakening market and mostly survived on the dwindling numbers that continued use it. To ramp up for the latest demand, they have to make decisions tied to profitability. If your best sellers are Portra 400 and Tri-X, that’s the focus. If the market wants film in cassettes, that’s what they should deliver.
The change we need to recognize is the most profitable segment of Kodak was the Instamatic users. People who bought a few rolls a year but there were millions of them. They have been lost to the cell phone and both Kodak and Ilford are trying to provide a product to users like us. The choices are becoming limited and more expensive but it’s also opened up the field to a whole new group whose lesser known products are becoming household names.
Remember, if we keep buying it, they’ll keep making it.
The digital revolution brought significant changes to the film manufacturers in a relatively short period of time. Kodak was immensely profitable in the late 1990s and filing for bankruptcy a decade later. Their ability to continue to manufacture film was tested by an ever weakening market and mostly survived on the dwindling numbers that continued use it. To ramp up for the latest demand, they have to make decisions tied to profitability. If your best sellers are Portra 400 and Tri-X, that’s the focus. If the market wants film in cassettes, that’s what they should deliver.
The change we need to recognize is the most profitable segment of Kodak was the Instamatic users. People who bought a few rolls a year but there were millions of them. They have been lost to the cell phone and both Kodak and Ilford are trying to provide a product to users like us. The choices are becoming limited and more expensive but it’s also opened up the field to a whole new group whose lesser known products are becoming household names.
Remember, if we keep buying it, they’ll keep making it.
MattKing
Moderator
It is either that, or other similar sources that are dealing with the same material source problems.
They've got lots of coating capacity still. And they are coating a fair bit of non-photographic product as well.
If they had the machinery available to make the bulk product as efficiently as the other product, they probably could. But as it is they have to divert both people and equipment from the efficient, high volume, profitable lines to the inefficient, low volume, marginally profitable line they use to make the bulk film (in 100 foot length with individual frame numbers).
Even the 400 foot lengths of 5222 motion picture film require more manual intervention than the line confectioning the 35mm cassettes - and they don't have frame numbering.
BS. They are doing what every other breeds corporation doing.
Scaring the consumer with future price rising and using the reduced supply to Price gauge.
They probably don’t have any chemical shortage at all.
Every business in the USA are doing this. Because there are plenty of dumb customers that are willing to pay the prices.
Here is the deal:
If what everybody is saying in defense of Kodak is true the price of Cinema film will go up as well. Well it does not.
Proving they price gouging film photography users.
The same goes for bulk, loading film.
If what everybody is saying in defense of Kodak is true the price of Cinema film will go up as well. Well it does not.
Proving they price gouging film photography users.
The same goes for bulk, loading film.
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Want to save some money on bulk rolling? Splice in a leader from scrap film and get 5 more shots per roll.
Cut the end of the scrap like the starting end of a roll and start it in your camera. Once you wind it on, cut it off about where the roll end would stick out of the cassette.
Get a piece of 2x4, pound 4 finishing nails in through sprocket holes. I cut them off with a wire cutter.
Tape join the rolled film with the leader. Trim the tape with a cuticle scissor and poke through the tape covering the sprocket holes.
This is the prototype and as you see, the nails should be a little closer to the edge to save another inch of film. Right away I found that rewinding the leader into the cassette causes excessive resistance to advancing the film. It also probably wears out the felt light trap more quickly too, so I just leave it sticking out..
Cut the end of the scrap like the starting end of a roll and start it in your camera. Once you wind it on, cut it off about where the roll end would stick out of the cassette.
Get a piece of 2x4, pound 4 finishing nails in through sprocket holes. I cut them off with a wire cutter.
Tape join the rolled film with the leader. Trim the tape with a cuticle scissor and poke through the tape covering the sprocket holes.
This is the prototype and as you see, the nails should be a little closer to the edge to save another inch of film. Right away I found that rewinding the leader into the cassette causes excessive resistance to advancing the film. It also probably wears out the felt light trap more quickly too, so I just leave it sticking out..
Nope.
They will reduce prices to encourage people to buy more film.
When it comes to monopolies rules are different.
They are making a lot of money.
MattKing
Moderator
About 2% - company wide.
1/10 of their revenues come from film and chemicals.
9/10 of their revenues come from their other, mostly printing industry related businesses.
They have publicly accessible financial statements.
It is fine to wish that things are different than they actually are, but they are not.
If you think an American business that becomes a monopoly is not aware and taking advantage of the lucrative price gouging possibility you must “wish that things are different than they actually are, but they are not.”
I prefer to stop shooting color film to feeding some monopoly greedy executives. .
Take all the number you want and spin them anyway you want nothing grew in price the way Kodak film prices did.
Take all the number you want and spin them anyway you want nothing grew in price the way Kodak film prices did.
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Kodak has a monopoly on black and white film? I guess the guys at Ilford, Fuji, Foma need to be told they don't actually make film.
MattKing
Moderator
A fascinating site: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/KODK/eastman-kodak/net-profit-margin
Technically, it’s an oligopoly. Few players, high barriers to entry into market, etc. Oligopolies and monopolies share certain anti-competitive characteristics, but, generally speaking, the latter is more scrutinized than the former.
MattKing
Moderator
The just released (February 15, 2023) Kodak motion picture product catalogs include some significant increases. 400 feet of 5222 is up to $421.02 CDN - about a $40.00 increase.
Here are the links to the respective catalogues: https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/order-film
For ease of comparison, here are the prices as of February 2023: https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...nge-Bulletin-eff230215d-Select-Films-Cans.pdf
And these are the prices as of one year earlier - February 2022: https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...e-Change-Bulletin-eff220204a-Select-Films.pdf
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The fact there are still a number of films available and the bargain lines like Kentmere. Legacy Pro, Foma and the others gives us a less expensive alternative. Just like the movie, prices are up on everything, everywhere all at once.
Found 122 M (400') of ORWO UN 54 sent from Germany for $300 CDN. I might be changing my preference from 5222 to Orwo as I've used this brand of film before many times without any problems and impressive results. They seem to be great to deal with as the problem with Orwo P400 film was sorted out quickly and cheaper shipping from Germany than from Kodak in Toronto. It's also less expensive dealing with the Euro to CDN exchange rate than the 32% exchange to US dollar.
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MOD BREAK: expressing discontent is fine. Foul language is not.
The raise is a lot lower.
Also price per feet is wayyyyy lower.
Proving that they are gauging still film shooters.
Also I assume other countries pay more for stuff. We still live in a unipolar world for a reason.
If they can sale XX 400 feet they should be able to sale trix tmax similar prices.
The same with portra and vision.
The same with portra and vision.
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I do understand your frustration in a way, though.
Sorry but it is WAY higher. What Mat quoted is the stated price but you include taxes on that $55.26 freight $30 with the total being $515.78 CDN for the 400' roll. Quite a significant increase from a few yrs ago but I never was a big fan of Kodak film with so many others with same or even better results. Never thought that Kentmere film would get to be as popular as it has been but it has been doing quite well in the film market especially the new production of the 120 film.
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