Shocked at how much bulk TMY-2 costs

[DeletedAcct1]

Eastman Kodak is a commercial printing service company with a relatively small (~20%) division that has special expertise in coating technologies that include coating photographic film.
The land and buildings that the coating and finishing production require are an important part of the security that Eastman Kodak relies upon in order to support their indebtedness. If Eastman Kodak goes into bankruptcy, it won't be because of its film related business, it will be despite its film related business. But Eastman Kodak can't afford to, and wouldn't be permitted to, operate its film related business in any way other than efficiently, with a view to turning operating profits, and maintaining its physical and human resources.
The "chemical" operation only relates to motion picture film, plus the synthesis of some specialty chemicals.
And Ilford is a far, far smaller entity than Eastman Kodak as a whole.

Then if the still film compartment for Eastman Kodak accounts for 10% of the total revenues, why inflating the film prices this much?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Then if the still film compartment for Eastman Kodak accounts for 10% of the total revenues, why inflating the film prices this much?

Because they increased the prices and (at least allegedly) film still flew off the shelf. So they increased more to get even better profit. Wether or not this strategy is viable or not is highly debatable.

 

[Radost]

I have an idea for how they can save money: Stop making ektar…

 

[Don_ih]

Like it or not, Kodak will go bankrupt again if it continues to raise prices.

No - they will stop making photographic film if people stop buying it. They now have other fish to fry.

 

[Radost]

No - they will stop making photographic film if people stop buying it. They now have other fish to fry.

Hydroxychloroquine?

 

[Don_ih]

Hydroxychloroquine?

Kodak makes printers and supplies for the print industry.
Kodak Alaris is a "data capture" company, selling scanners and entire "data acquisition solutions" to industry.

Film is not something they really need to make or sell, anymore. It won't bankrupt them if they stop.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Film is not something they really need to make or sell, anymore. It won't bankrupt them if they stop.

Then again why milking people with inflated prices for no reason?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I think it's been explained. Part of the reason is their high overhead, cost of materials, etc. If it bothers you so much, then use films from other manufacturers.

 

[MCB18]

Kodak prices are weird. Let’s take E100D for example. It’s the same film used in stills cameras, but it is packaged in 400 ft and 1000 ft rolls. A 400 ft roll cost me $566, and I get 80 rolls out of it by rolling it in the dark. $7/roll for a roll, compared to $27 locally, and $21 online (not including taxes/shipping). Sure, rolling it is a bit of work, but for me, it’s worth it for 1/3 the price.

And, I could definitely sell some rolls, I don’t need 80 rolls, lol. Sell it for $12, I’ll get back my initial investment after 50 rolls, and I still have 30 rolls I can use! I can get 30 rolls of slide film by getting paid $35!

And then there are short ends… color film for $1.50/roll? Yes please!

Basically, I don’t worry about the consumer film stuff, I just buy the Cine sticks.

 

[Radost]

I think it's been explained. Part of the reason is their high overhead, cost of materials, etc. If it bothers you so much, then use films from other manufacturers.

Unfortunately this is a false statement. Kodak is a monopoly.
No other manufacturer makes color film.

 

[Radost]

Kodak prices are weird. Let’s take E100D for example. It’s the same film used in stills cameras, but it is packaged in 400 ft and 1000 ft rolls. A 400 ft roll cost me $566, and I get 80 rolls out of it by rolling it in the dark. $7/roll for a roll, compared to $27 locally, and $21 online (not including taxes/shipping). Sure, rolling it is a bit of work, but for me, it’s worth it for 1/3 the price.

And, I could definitely sell some rolls, I don’t need 80 rolls, lol. Sell it for $12, I’ll get back my initial investment after 50 rolls, and I still have 30 rolls I can use! I can get 30 rolls of slide film by getting paid $35!

And then there are short ends… color film for $1.50/roll? Yes please!

Basically, I don’t worry about the consumer film stuff, I just buy the Cine sticks.

Exactly, almost if the prices for still shooters are inflated because we are willing to pay them.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak prices are weird. Let’s take E100D for example. It’s the same film used in stills cameras, but it is packaged in 400 ft and 1000 ft rolls. A 400 ft roll cost me $566, and I get 80 rolls out of it by rolling it in the dark. $7/roll for a roll, compared to $27 locally, and $21 online (not including taxes/shipping). Sure, rolling it is a bit of work, but for me, it’s worth it for 1/3 the price.

And, I could definitely sell some rolls, I don’t need 80 rolls, lol. Sell it for $12, I’ll get back my initial investment after 50 rolls, and I still have 30 rolls I can use! I can get 30 rolls of slide film by getting paid $35!

And then there are short ends… color film for $1.50/roll? Yes please!

Basically, I don’t worry about the consumer film stuff, I just buy the Cine sticks.

Cine stock - packaged in a cassette of a different sort:

As best as I can roughly estimate, one 50 foot Super 8 film has about the same amount of film area as 2.25 - 2.5 rolls of 135-36 film.
The film itself is a meaningful portion of the cost. But it is a relatively small portion.

If you are going to put in the manual labour, and take the associated risks relating to all the necessary steps, you can save a bunch of cash on a lot of rolls of film.
And if you are going to sell the fruits of your labour, and your customers accept the same risks, it may very well pay you to do so.

But those two "ifs" are big ones. The vast majority of users - the ones that Eastman Kodak (for cine film) and Kodak Alaris/distributors/retailers sell almost all film to, aren't willing to accept those risks.

Comparing the cost of 1000 foot loads of cine film to factory loads of 135-36 is like comparing the cost of 100 lbs of organic flower, and a bunch of salt and yeast to the cost of a loaf of bread.

 

[Don_ih]

Comparing the cost of 1000 foot loads of cine film to factory loads of 135-36 is like comparing the cost of 100 lbs of organic flower, and a bunch of salt and yeast to the cost of a loaf of bread.

Good for the goose (Ektachrome) but not the ol' b&w ganders (Tmax, Tri-x)?

 

[pentaxuser]

We once had an ex Kodak engineer with a lot of knowledge of matters Kodak in the technical sense. Now if we could only get a recently retired senior accountant and process engineer on Photrio and on whom we could rely for absolute impartiality having retired, then we can maybe start to get answers that may just may help resolve some of the questions for those of us who harbour any doubts about where the truth lies

Until then ....

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

Good for the goose (Ektachrome) but not the ol' b&w ganders (Tmax, Tri-x)?

If there was a market with decent volumes and associated cameras that used 1000 foot loads of T-Max and Tri-X still film, you would see it marketed that way.
It would be through the Kodak Alaris distribution network though - not directly from Eastman Kodak.

 

[Don_ih]

Yeah, that's not what I was referring to.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Kodak prices are weird. Let’s take E100D for example. It’s the same film used in stills cameras, but it is packaged in 400 ft and 1000 ft rolls. A 400 ft roll cost me $566, and I get 80 rolls out of it by rolling it in the dark. $7/roll for a roll, compared to $27 locally, and $21 online (not including taxes/shipping). Sure, rolling it is a bit of work, but for me, it’s worth it for 1/3 the price.

And, I could definitely sell some rolls, I don’t need 80 rolls, lol. Sell it for $12, I’ll get back my initial investment after 50 rolls, and I still have 30 rolls I can use! I can get 30 rolls of slide film by getting paid $35!

And then there are short ends… color film for $1.50/roll? Yes please!

Basically, I don’t worry about the consumer film stuff, I just buy the Cine sticks.

Bulk loading for 35mm film makes sense if one shoots enough film and processes it themself. Otherwise the cost of the cassettes must be added to every roll.

 

[Radost]

Bulk loading for 35mm film makes sense if one shoots enough film and processes it themself. Otherwise the cost of the cassettes must be added to every roll.

Тhe cost is not double

 

[MCB18]

If you are going to put in the manual labour, and take the associated risks relating to all the necessary steps, you can save a bunch of cash on a lot of rolls of film.
And if you are going to sell the fruits of your labour, and your customers accept the same risks, it may very well pay you to do so.

Certainly has for me, I am making enough to hopefully get my rolliflex fixed this summer by selling 220 and cutting 4x5 film! Very happy with that.

 

[MattKing]

Certainly has for me, I am making enough to hopefully get my rolliflex fixed this summer by selling 220 and cutting 4x5 film! Very happy with that.

I applaud your efforts.
I'm assuming though that you can appreciate that you and your customers are unusual, and sufficiently "rare" that neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris would be likely to be able to base their business plans on your examples.

 

[MCB18]

I applaud your efforts.
I'm assuming though that you can appreciate that you and your customers are unusual, and sufficiently "rare" that neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris would be likely to be able to base their business plans on your examples.

Yeah, I realize that. But dispite what folks told me, it has been working out. Even if it’s only viable on a small scale.

Bulk loading for 35mm film makes sense if one shoots enough film and processes it themself. Otherwise the cost of the cassettes must be added to every roll.

I get them by the handful from my lab for free, and I think most labs are happy to give them to you if you ask.

I have 10 old Ilford cassettes that I use for personal rolls, and I love them. Well worth the $30, which I think is a steal from what I’ve seen on The Big Auction site, and certainly better than the new plastic ones.

 

[Radost]

I have 10 old Ilford cassettes that I use for personal rolls, and I love them. Well worth the $30, which I think is a steal from what I’ve seen on The Big Auction site, and certainly better than the new plastic ones.

I buy AP cassettes. I think around $1. Reusable so one time cost.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yeah, I realize that. But dispite what folks told me, it has been working out. Even if it’s only viable on a small scale.



I get them by the handful from my lab for free, and I think most labs are happy to give them to you if you ask.

I have 10 old Ilford cassettes that I use for personal rolls, and I love them. Well worth the $30, which I think is a steal from what I’ve seen on The Big Auction site, and certainly better than the new plastic ones.

Back when I shot slides in the '70's I would buy a 100' roll of Ektachrome and for a long time the labs would return the cartridges and then suddenly they refused because it was too much work. At that point, paying for a new cartridge for each roll made bulk loading unattractive to me.

 

[pentaxuser]

Back when I shot slides in the '70's I would buy a 100' roll of Ektachrome and for a long time the labs would return the cartridges and then suddenly they refused because it was too much work. At that point, paying for a new cartridge for each roll made bulk loading unattractive to me.

If you process your own cassettes then after a few months you build up a stock of used-once factory cassettes which can then be used for several times each as reusable cassettes for bulk film, can't they?

pentaxuser

 

[Don_ih]

used-once factory cassettes

The reason people tape film to some bit that's sticking out those factory cassettes is that the cassettes are not meant to survive dismantling (the cap gets bent) and the cassette itself is weird - the factory cap doesn't easily fit back on it, even if it's not bent out of shape.