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Shipping film during hot weather

Pieter12

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It occurred to me that although I need some film, I am hesitant to order film that might be stuck in a hot truck or warehouse during a heat wave. I'm pretty sure the sender isn't going to pack it in insulated material, maybe not even those air-filled bubble wraps or cushions. And the trucks, containers and warehouses are most probably not insulated either. Which brings me to the question: how do manufacturers and distributors ship their film? I know many members here are pretty AR about refrigerating and storing film, but under what conditions does that film arrive at the dealer? Color and black and white.

No conjecture, just would like an answer from someone with acetal, first-hand knowledge.
 
Back in the day Kodak kept professional film at 55°F or cooler. Most film these days come from who knows????

I order film when it's cool.
 
mshchem said:
Back in the day Kodak kept professional film at 55°F or cooler. Most film these days come from who knows????

I order film when it's cool.
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At their facilities, sure. And most camera stores, too. But does anybody know how the film travels in between?
 
Last year, I experimented leaving a roll of film in my van for a week of hot weather. The result was: no impact. It made no difference at all.
 
I order film in the summer when temps here in the low desert is 105 to over 110F, so far none of the film I have shot has any fog. Well black and white, cannot vouch for color as I use to buy it from a local shop. But, have no idea is the local camera shops buy for a wholesaler who ship refrigerated.
 
Pieter12 said:
At their facilities, sure. And most camera stores, too. But does anybody know how the film travels in between?
Click to expand...

Back then, in climate controlled trucks or other shipping systems.
Now, from Eastman Kodak to local distributors, most likely with some attention paid to shipping conditions - they have systems in place to avoid X-ray damage for instance - but other than that???
One of the design goals for the re-introduction of Ektachrome a few years back was to make it a bit more robust if exposed to a wide variety of sub-optimal conditions.
 
2 or 3 days in the mail isn't going to harm film. If you're doing professional shoots with large format photography have it shipped FedEx or UPS overnight next morning.
 
Pieter12 said:
I'm pretty sure the sender isn't going to pack it in insulated material, maybe not even those air-filled bubble wraps or cushions
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter as this would only help for an our or so. Insulation only slows down heat transfer. After an hour in a hot truck, the contents if your padded envelope will be as hot as everything else.

The main concern I see with shipping film in hot weather is limited to 120 film, where the ink in the backing paper can interact with the emulsion. Ideally, this shouldn't happen, not even with rather high temperatures in a truck driving through a hot desert. We all know that sometimes, reality deviates from the ideal; the issue with Kodak TMAX backing paper a couple of years ago is a good illustration. I don't think there's much you can do about this except take the gamble and test a roll of film when you receive it. If it turns out to be affected, contact the seller and/or the manufacturer and hope that they'll be willing to work on a solution with you. Realistically, the manufacturer will have to make a product that can withstand normal logistics and use. If their product relies on being kept at a certain temperature, then they'll have to furnish the logistics channel that guarantees this - and your roll of film will end up costing $75 instead of $10.
 
Thread drift: we all "know" that heat is bad for fine wine. A great wine critic once forgot the wine in his trunk and left his car in the baking sun for a couple of days before remembering it. Result was that a bottle or two was stewed, but most showed absolutely no sign of damage.
 

The conclusion I am coming to is that film will survive a fair amount of heat, and the caution to store it at 55º is just the manufacturer being overly cautious, since they can't even maintain that standard. Long term exposure to high temperatures most certainly can't be good, but storage at room temperature does not seem like a terrible thing. Conjecture: storing film frozen or even just refrigerated may be going over the top and possibly causing more damage (through freezing at least) than preservation. As far as 120 film is concerned, the only time I have had film damaged was because of Ilford's backing paper issue. And I'm inclined to attribute that, beyond manufacturing issues, more to humidity than heat.
 
I have thought about this problem particularly with 120 film, but I end up taking the film with me instead.
 
Pieter12 said:
Conjecture: storing film frozen or even just refrigerated may be going over the top and possibly causing more damage (through freezing at least) than preservation.
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The sensitivity of film is subject to change over time - keeping the film at lower temperatures slows that process down (the colder, the slower). People talk about fogging from radiation - that is a totally separate issue and will happen no matter what temperature. Humidity is going to be a problem with emulsion in contact with paper and even with emulsion in contact with the back of the film. The goal is to avoid changes in humidity in the film package as much as possible. A freezer (one that does not auto defrost) will maintain the best conditions for storing film.
 
I had 35mm film in a parked car for a couple hours in Greece last year while the outdoor temperature was 114 degrees F (45.5C). So the temperature in the car must have been much hotter. There was no observable degradation in the film. Weeks, months, years: that may be a different story.
 
I'm not sure if this question has been answered already:
Is film more sensitive to heat after it has been exposed (to the point that special action is required, eg, using expensive overnight shipping to the lab)?
 
multivoiced said:
Is film more sensitive to heat after it has been exposed
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I doubt it. Be an interesting experiment, though. Take a film holder, load both sides, expose one side with a test (that you can repeat), put the holder in a hot car for a couple of weeks, then expose the other side with the same test, then develop. My bet is, both images would look the same.
 
The response of the film's storing of the image might differ, depending on whether the excess heat was encountered before or after exposure.
A latent image changes the film.
But heat affects how the film creates a latent image.
 
When I ship film in this weather, I drop it off at the PO. I suggest to the recipient that I ship it as "Hold for pickup" That way, the time in a hot truck is minimized.
 
I know this thread cannot be put back on track, but my initial question was about buying unexposed film that would be shipped to me during hot weather. And how distributors/manufacturers deal with the same issue (although it seems like it is a non-issue, really) of exposure to heat during shipment of fresh film.
 
Pieter12 said:
my initial question was about buying unexposed film that would be shipped to me during hot weather. And how distributors/manufacturers deal with the same issue
Click to expand...

And it looks like @MattKing answered that about as well as anyone can. Chances are, they do nothing. Maybe you should ask Harman?
 
In any weather, does the mode of shipping make a difference? For instance, does air transport expose film to more harmful security screening?

I am aware that film is often delivered to customers via air.

I am deciding whether to ship 400TX to a lab via Ground Advantage or FedEx Express.
 

Couriers do not scan every package because of time and cost. Imagine training people to look at the screen as hundreds of packages go by. Also terrorists target passenger planes with people inside. This is a good question because postal services often do not have their own aircraft so will use commercial airlines to courier mail overseas. Thus I would not use airmail or EMS if I need to send film from overseas.
 
Any insight about international shipping is welcome. However, for my own purpose, I only need to know about domestic shipping within USA.

Rayt said:
This is a good question because postal services often do not have their own aircraft so will use commercial airlines to courier mail overseas. I would not use airmail or EMS if I need to send film from say Singapore back home.
Click to expand...
 
Both the planes and the trucks usually don't have much in the way of climate control on. They only do that for live animal shipments. Insulation is removed from cargo planes so they can fit more stuff in.

Ground would be spending a longer period of time in non-climate control. And the ground is hotter than the air. While items are waiting for their next step they're usually sitting in trailers with no HVAC. The delivery vehicles also tend to not have HVAC for the cargo, and sometimes not even for the driver.

Certain types of mail are more likely to get inspected (for example USPS Media Mail is a much lower rate only allowed for certain items and is not sealed against inspection so that people don't abuse it).

If most domestic mail was frequently inspected/x-rayed, people wouldn't send drugs in it all the time: they do.

Film will probably be okay in a few days of hot temperatures. Cold should be no worry at all. X-ray, very low chance domestically.
 
FWIW Kodak did absolutely say shipping some films with refrigeration was a requirement. This label was on the 2-roll case of 2465 that me and my friend split.
 

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