Shen-Hao 7x17

[Amund]

For those interested, there`s a picture of the new 7x17 at their website www.shen-hao.com

 

[philldresser]

For a more direct look here is the url
http://www.shen-hao.com/E%D7%EE%D0%C2%B6%AF%CC%AC.html

 

[Mick Fagan]

As the camera is just over ½ a metre wide, no wonder they didn't give a weight figure.

Very interesting.

Mick.

 

[argus]

As the camera is just over ½ a metre wide, no wonder they didn't give a weight figure.

Very interesting.

Mick.

Well... I suppose that's rather normal for a 7*17 inch camera...

G

 

[Jim Chinn]

A 24" bellows seems a little short. Probably a pretty light camera since they have eliminated the folding front bed/extension common to most view cameras. I would be a little concerned about the robustness of the rear supports for the back. They seem pretty lightweight for a back that big.

I guess the big question is what is the price?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Over on the LF forum, price is reported to be around $4000. At that price, I'd probably start thinking about spending an extra $900 or so for a Canham.

I guess the short bellows is in the spirit of the Korona, designed to be a lightweight panoramic camera usable with wide to normal lenses. On the other hand, they are also known to be a bit on the flimsy side.

 

[sanking]

For a more direct look here is the url



That is a pretty interesting design, and quite different from anything else Shen-Hao has made. I had anticipated that they would just up-size the 5X12" Shen-Hao, which has similar features to the 5X7.

24" is less bellows draw than I like, but this is a lot more than you have with the F&S 7X17, and about the same as with a Korona 7X17 with the extension track. Wisner has also made a 7X17 with about 24" bellows draw. On the other hand, the Canham 7X17 has some 36" plus of bellows draw.

Sandy

 

[Scott Peters]

Great to see participation

I am happy to see another ULF 'supporter' and think it is great for the hobby. While looking to get into ULF and specifically 7 x 17 - my only option was basically used (not easy to find), long order lead times (rediculously long) or Shen Hao. I had placed an order on the Shen, only to find it increased to $3700 (and was still in the works, but not yet completed - and I had yet to get specs or see a picture) and found out phillips had a 7 x 17 immediately avail. for $4100 and jumped on it. The phillips is a fantastic camera and I am very happy with it. Very creative design, lightweight (relatively speaking ) and easy to work with.

I guess we will have to hear from others in the field on the Shen as to its ultimate performance...but overall I think this is a positive sign for our hobby.

 

[Kerik]

Interesting design. I'd be curious about the camera's weight and functionality of the movements. I have a Wisner 7x17 that has 30" of extension and weighs in at 11 lbs. It folds up into a very compact package. I went through 2 or 3 Koronas before I got the Wisner, and they also had 30" with the extension rail attached.

 

[Dave Wooten]

What Kerik said, My Wisner 7 x 17 weighs less than my 8 x 10 Wista, with a lot more moves and is very stable with and plenty of bellows, I find the 5 x 7 back useful also....If one can locate a Wisner 7 x 17 tech, I feel it is a winner.
Dave in Vegas

 

[payral]

Any info about the kind of filmhoders they use ?

 

[sanking]

Any info about the kind of filmhoders they use ?

Shen-Hao purchaed a 7X17 film holder from me so I expect the camera will use the S&S cherry style film holders.

Sandy

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Shen-Hao purchaed a 7X17 film holder from me so I expect the camera will use the S&S cherry style film holders.

Sandy

Hmmm... and if Shen-Hao decides to make a knock-off of the S&S holders?

 

[Dave Parker]

Hmmm... and if Shen-Hao decides to make a knock-off of the S&S holders?

Ya,

I know a bit about their knock offs, been down that road....

Dave

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Hmmm... and if Shen-Hao decides to make a knock-off of the S&S holders?

My thoughts exactly.

I work in the semiconductor indsutry and our business is Intellectual Property protection on copyrighted designs. We make a lot of money if and when we prove copyright infrigements. In this case, the designs are not copyrighted and not protected. Shen Hao is having a filed day ripping off Ebony's designs first and now Philips'. This, with NO repercussions.

I would be extermely surprised if the very same scenario did not happen to Sandy and his S&S holders. They bought some, they will rip them apart, copy them and make replicas for a fraction of the price Sandy can possibly make them for - just like they're doing with their cameras. No R&D expenditures, no effort on their part. Take a good design, steal it, take the money and run. The USSR was exceedingly good at this game in the past. Now, the Chinese are getting even better with little to no consequenece from their own governemnt (although that is changing in the semiconductor industry due to world pressures).

Personnaly, I cannot support Shan Hao's business preactices so they'll never see a penny from me. (Besides, I already have a 7x17 Wisner and genuine S&S holders and that is not going to change any time soon...)

 

[sanking]

Ya,

I know a bit about their knock offs, been down that road....

Dave

Well, that would not surprise me at all. However, I am not sure they could do a lot better with their pricing, especially if they used a US distributor who would take a fair percentage of the profit. And I thnk a lot of people would be reluctant to buy holders directly from the plant in China since return shipping would be very high if there were a problem. So regardless of pricing S&S will offer faster (and I think better) customer service, both for reasons of geography, language, and because as a real user of this equipment I have a better understanding of the many issues relating to ULF holders.

In general, however, most camera makers have not been interested in also making holders. Keith Canham, for example, could certainly make nice holders if he elected to do so, but to this point the only ones he has made are for 4X10 size.

Sandy

 

[Dave Wooten]

didn't Lotus do that a wee bit with Ron Wisner? BTW as a proud owner of S & S holders (14 x 17 and 7 x 17) they are an incredible value....it is not worth it to try and make do with old has been holders....

Dave in Vegas

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

didn't Lotus do that a wee bit with Ron Wisner?
Dave in Vegas

Absolutely NOT. Lotus got started in the LF market making 4x10 holders for Wisner's cameras. Why? Because nobody else, including Wisner could fill this need at that time. Wisner was selling 4x10 cameras based on a film holder (4x10 x-ray holders) that had been discontinued decades earlier and were impossible to find. I know, I had a 4x10 Wisner Tech Field and spent YEARS trying to locate some decent holders to use with it. I had absolutely no complaints with my 4x10 Wisner camera. It was nicely made and functioned well. However, the best camera in the world is useless if you can't get holders for it. Originally, Mido supplied their Mido II thin sheet film holders for the 4x10 Wisner cameras - and when I bought my Wisner these were the ONLY holders you could get to fit a 4x10 Wisner (wich uses different size holders than the 4x10 Canham, which was first to market). Unfortunately, the Mido holders wre not very good quality and had problems with light leaks. Mr. Mido sufferd from poor health and eventually passed away. At that time, there were NO holders available from anyone to fit a 4x10 Wisner camera. If you had a 4x10 Wisner, you were SOL.

Back in August 1996, out of frustration over the lack of viable holders, I sold my entire 4x10 Wisner outfit (incluing the Mido holders) to a man named Burkhardt Kiegeland in Austria. Mr. Kiegeland also was unhappy about the quality of the Mido holders. So, he had a craftsman make some wooden 4x10 holders to fit the 4x10 Wisner camera. As a result Lotus View Camera was born - and their first product was 4x10 holders that they supplied to Ron Wisner to sell with his 4x10 cameras. If anything, Lotus and their well made, affordable holders, finally made Ron Wisner's 4x10 cameras usable for actually taking photographs. At that time, the Lotus holders sold for $95 - same as the plastic Canham holders, and a tremendous bargain for high quality hand made wooden film holders. This relationship between Wisner and Lotus was short lived. In hindsight, I wish I would have bought a bunch of those $95 Lotus made 4x10 holders. The Lotus holders are superbly made. I am fortunate to own several (but not in the Wisner form factor) that I bought used a couple years ago. They are the finest wooden film holders I have used (and I have used all current brands). Unfortunately, they are priced at around $400 each these days (partially due to the unfavorable exchange rate).

Thanks to Alan Brubaker and S&S, it is again possible to get well-made 4x10 holders in the Wisner form factor. They aren't priced at $95 each, but at $225 they are considerably less expensive than current Lotus 4x10 holders.

Kerry

 

[Dave Wooten]

Thanks as always for the correct info Kerry....a few weeks ago in NYC I was able to see and touch Eric Taubmans 20 x 24 Lotus....now those film holders are indeed another story...also the best bail back design I have seen todate
Dave in Vegas

 

[Kerik]

a few weeks ago in NYC I was able to see and touch Eric Taubmans 20 x 24 Lotus....now those film holders are indeed another story...also the best bail back design I have seen to date
Dave in Vegas

Cool... I'll be there tomorrow teaching gum over platinum in NYC this weekend. Looking forward to checking out the Uber-Lotus. I love Lotus cameras (I have a 12x20) and I agree with Kerry that their holders are the best. S&S Holders are also very good, now that the bugs have been worked out. They had some darkslide issues on the earlier models. The S&S holders are also less expensive and the customer service is second to none.

 

[sanking]

Cool... I'll be there tomorrow teaching gum over platinum in NYC this weekend. Looking forward to checking out the Uber-Lotus. I love Lotus cameras (I have a 12x20) and I agree with Kerry that their holders are the best. S&S Holders are also very good, now that the bugs have been worked out. They had some darkslide issues on the earlier models. The S&S holders are also less expensive and the customer service is second to none.

Kerik,

Thanks very much for the nice comment about our customer service. We did indeed have some issues with the light baffles on our earlier models but have worked hard to correct any problems experienced by our customers.

For several reasons we recently decided to use a double baffle system in the S&S holders. We have found that this system is 1) both easier and faster to install, and 2) offers better protection from light intrusion when removing and re-inserting the dark slide than a single baffle.

We are now also offering our holders in walnut and cherry. I now have the first batches of 7X17 and 12X20 holders in walnut and I can tell you that the quality of the craftsmanship is second to none. In fact, I think they are the finest made holders in the world, irrespective of cost. For the walnut series we have also adopted the sizing specifications on Keith Canham's web site, which are different from our cherry series only in 7X17 and 12X20 size.

Sandy