Share your replenished Xtol development times

MattKing · Sep 29, 2020

I'm surprised - I see less "drift" with that number of rolls, using a similar working solution volume.
It might be due to the films you are developing - a lot of mine is T-Max, with the majority of that being TMY-2.

braxus · Sep 29, 2020

I'm confused. What makes replenished Xtol different from stock one shot Xtol?

MattKing · Sep 29, 2020

braxus said:
I'm confused. What makes replenished Xtol different from stock one shot Xtol?

Better economy, subtly different tonality and speed, slightly better sharpness, less environmental impact, markedly advantageous workflow with large format (much less waste with many tanks), ease of use with varying ambient temperatures.
As the developer ripens - reaches a steady state balance of byproduct build-up and activity - it gives me a result I prefer. And I really like the workflow.

Bormental · Sep 29, 2020

MattKing said:
I'm surprised - I see less "drift" with that number of rolls, using a similar working solution volume. It might be due to the films you are developing - a lot of mine is T-Max, with the majority of that being TMY-2.

This could be. Both HP5+ and Foma are "hungry" films.

MattKing · Sep 30, 2020

And in further reply to braxus, who is in the process of starting up film development again:
I like developing film using a replenishment regime. I like using X-Tol because it is excellent when you use it one shot, and because it serves as its own replenisher.
Other replenish-able developers often require a different, special purpose replenisher.
T-Max RS is another self-replenishing option, but as far as I can tell it is no longer sold in small enough packages for it to make sense for home darkrooms.
If I were braxus, I would start using X-Tol 1+1 one shot. Once his process and procedures are working smoothly, then consider transitioning to replenishment.

Bormental · Sep 30, 2020

braxus said:
I'm confused. What makes replenished Xtol different from stock one shot Xtol?

Matt explained the benefits quite well, but in you're wondering about the process, it goes like this:

Mix some fresh Xtol, these days it's 5L
Take 2L and put it into a special bottle, that becomes your "working batch". The other 3L go into another bottle, that's your replenisher.
Season the 2L working batch by developing some film in it and pouring the developer back. I used 3 rolls of 24exp to season 1L, and started a thread about it.
Now you have 2L of replenished Xtol.

From now on, your results and your process will be slightly different:

You being your developing by pouring out of the 2L working batch bottle into the tank with 1 film in it.
While the film is "cooking", you add at least 70ml of fresh Xtol to the 2L working bottle from your 3L replenisher bottle.
When the development is done, you pour the developer from the tank back into the 2L working bottle, and discard the rest.

If you're developing 2 films at a time, you need 140ml+ of replenisher, and so on.

The benefits, as Matt described are:

Better economy (questionable, I think, since Xtol is dirt cheap anyway)
Tighter grain
Stock Xtol tonality - this is my opinion, I have not observed any "special" tonality from replenishing.

In my case, I started with stock one-shot Xtol and loved the results. To reduce developer usage I moved to 1:1 Xtol and my HP5+ results had gotten visibly worse (flat). Replenished Xtol gives me stock Xtol look, plus slightly tighter grain and better economy: a 5L packet allows for 55-60 rolls of film.

I definitely recommend starting with stock Xtol, becoming comfortable, and only then playing with 1:1 one-shot or replenishing.

MattKing · Sep 30, 2020

Bormental and I don't agree about the tonality, but he might just come around if someone were to post the comparison between the respective characteristic curves . I have the advantage that I came to replenished X-Tol after using replenished HC-110 for a few years. That is more complex than X-Tol, but I might not have switched if Kodak was still selling the special purpose HC-110 replenisher (which I have a stash of, in case).

Bormental · Sep 30, 2020

"Tonality" is a loaded term. I will be the first to admit that I may be erasing any "tonality" difference between stock and replenished Xtol by building and storing my own curves. I never print, I only scan, therefore I bend any film into the look I want. And I found 1:1 Xtol to be hopeless for my purposes (with HP5+) but stock or replenished work the same.

Athiril · Sep 30, 2020

Edit: Found my notes, these times gave excellent results, and were extremely convenient. I also liked doing only 1 to 2 gentle inversions per minute. I always replenished, and when it was flaky, I used a coffee filter to clean it up, and kept using and replenishing it.

Following times are for replenished seasoned Xtol, not fresh stock Xtol.
Group 1

24 degrees celsius, for 5 minutes 45 seconds,
6 minutes 30 seconds for 1 stop push (Kodak T-Max 400 has no change in time for 1 stop push).

Kodak T-Max 100 & 400
Kodak Tri-X
Kodak Plus-X
Ilford Delta 400
Ilford Pan F+
Fuji Acros 100 (original havent tried new)
Fuji Neopan 400
Shanghai GP3 (havent tried new GP3 100 and GP3 400)

Group 2
27 degrees celsius, for 5 minutes 30 seconds (or 24 degrees for 7 minutes)
6 minutes 30 seconds for 1 stop push
Group 1 when they are +2 stop push can go here as well.
Ilford Delta 100
Ilford FP4+
Ilford HP5+
Kentmere Films
Rollei RPX 100 & 400
Rollei Retro 100 400

Any of the lomo B&W stuff can go in here too

Group 3

29 degrees celsius, for 8 minutes
Group 2 when they are +2 to +3 stop push can go here as well

Ilford Delta 3200
Kodak T-Max 3200 (old T-Max 3200, havent tried new)

braxus · Sep 30, 2020

Interesting. How do the times differ from one shot to replenished?

Athiril · Sep 30, 2020

braxus said:
Interesting. How do the times differ from one shot to replenished?

The times at the same temp in fresh one shot Xtol are shorter than replenished, I would find my film overdeveloped if I ran the replenished times on new Xtol before it was seasoned. On fresh Xtol, I would use it at one shot times, but keep it and not replenish it, until it started needing times as long as replenished, then I would replenish from there. At 75mL per 36 exp/120 roll if I recall correctly (fresh one shot Xtol was used as the replenisher).

MattKing · Sep 30, 2020

The replenished times you arrive at will usually be somewhere around the 1+1 times for one shot.

radiant · Sep 30, 2020

I have missed the reason why use replenished Xtol vs diluted stock as one-shot? I assume it develops films differently?

Bormental · Sep 30, 2020

@vedostuu scroll up.

radiant · Sep 30, 2020

Bormental said:
@vedostuu scroll up.

Ups, sorry. I tried to look up but of course it was on same page

Bormental · Sep 30, 2020

No worries. I found Xtol 1:1 to be overly compensating in the highlights, especially with HP5+. You'd have your blacks, your greys and your slightly-lighter-greys. It was difficult to separate midtones from highlights for me, people's faces would look unnaturally flat under soft lighting. Here's one example (HP5+, the entire roll looked like this). Here's Delta 400 under full sun, same thing IMO. Both scenes looked more interesting in person, and would have looked better with full-strength Xtol or D76.

To be honest, I have not experimented much with 1:1 and after a few rolls I just went back to full-strength and eventually to replenished. I started uploading my recent scans into the Gallery here, there's plenty of Xtol-R examples.

radiant · Sep 30, 2020

Maybe I show my stupidity again but here it goes:

How about the life of replenisher? It probably dies in usual Xtol matter (by the spec). I currently have trouble developing enough roll films to keep using Xtol safe.

I totally agree with sheet film; it consumes huge amount of chemicals compared to roll films. That is a damn good reason I decided to switch to Rodinal on sheet film because of this. However fixer consumption is high too. That I'm trying to solve by buying fixer as powder.

Bormental · Sep 30, 2020

vedostuu said:
Maybe I show my stupidity again but here it goes:
How about the life of replenisher? It probably dies in usual Xtol matter (by the spec). I currently have trouble developing enough roll films to keep using Xtol safe.

In this case I wouldn't replenish. Stock full-strength Xtol rocks, in my opinion. I started looking at replenishment only after I moved to the medium format, where you need 500ml of developer for just 10-12 frames (for Paterson tanks).

radiant · Sep 30, 2020

Bormental said:
In this case I wouldn't replenish. Stock full-strength Xtol rocks, in my opinion. I started looking at replenishment only after I moved to the medium format, where you need 500ml of developer for just 10-12 frames (for Paterson tanks).

Ok. I develop two 120 rolls on one reel because of this. Also it makes processing rolls faster. I usually develop 6 rolls at a time (3 reels).

A bit off-topic, I'll be quiet now

Bormental · Sep 30, 2020

@vedostuu I am behind you! I just recently discovered the possibility of loading two 120 rolls on one reel.

Athiril · Sep 30, 2020

Bormental said:
No worries. I found Xtol 1:1 to be overly compensating in the highlights, especially with HP5+. You'd have your blacks, your greys and your slightly-lighter-greys. It was difficult to separate midtones from highlights for me, people's faces would look unnaturally flat under soft lighting. Here's one example (HP5+, the entire roll looked like this). Here's Delta 400 under full sun, same thing IMO. Both scenes looked more interesting in person, and would have looked better with full-strength Xtol or D76.

To be honest, I have not experimented much with 1:1 and after a few rolls I just went back to full-strength and eventually to replenished. I started uploading my recent scans into the Gallery here, there's plenty of Xtol-R examples.

Yeah it doesnt look nice for Delta 400. Here is one I particularly liked the results from Delta 400, not sure if its the same effect? But I shot it at 100, and developed in 24c Xtol with only one gentle inversion per minute, the look of the film changed quite a bit. So a short rapid dev time, with increased exposure and minimal agitation.

Also another from the same roll and EI, which wasnt so great

Huub · Sep 30, 2020

MattKing said:
What volume of working solution are you using, and how much film are you putting through it?

I use a 2.7 L bottle for the stock solution, replenishing with 75 till 80 ml of stock solution per film. I run about 80 films in year through it.

Donald Qualls · Sep 30, 2020

Where economy of Xtol replenishment lives is in how much you use per film. With replenishment, "by the book", you need only 70 ml for each 120, 135-36, or 8x10 equivalent, where with 1+1 you might (depending on your equipment) use as much as 800 ml (for 4x5 sheets in a Yankee Agitank, for instance). That difference makes a 5L pack of Xtol last almost 13 times as long if you shoot mainly 4x5 and didn't shell out for the fancier ways (and can't develop in trays because scratches).

Many folks claim you need to extend time in replenishment; I haven't found this to be the case. I've done 15-16 rolls (just over a liter of replenisher used) in my batch, using "Xtol Stock" times from the Massive Dev Chart, and my negatives look and scan (still not printing, but soon) just like the first batch in the fresh tank solution (I did no seasoning). Now, you could argue that replenishing from roll #1 will slow my seasoning, but I'd reply that after 15+ rolls my 2L tank solution should be seasoned regardless whether I replenished the first couple times or not.

MattKing · Sep 30, 2020

vedostuu said:
How about the life of replenisher? It probably dies in usual Xtol matter (by the spec). I currently have trouble developing enough roll films to keep using Xtol safe.

If you aren't using up all of your replenisher once you have reached the six month time frame, you can:
1) do regular clip tests to ensure continued activity; and/or
2) discard the unused replenisher, and mix up 5 litres of new replenisher. The working solution is continuously revived if your replenisher is active.
Given the very reasonable price of 5 litres of X-Tol, even if you have to discard 40% of each package, it still isn't expensive. And if you use tanks that use more than the absolute minimum of solution, the cost per roll is even better.

Donald Qualls said:
Many folks claim you need to extend time in replenishment; I haven't found this to be the case.

I am surprised Donald, but wonder if it is due to relying on the Massive Development chart.
Replenished X-Tol is considerably less active than stock X-Tol used one shot. It is close to X-Tol diluted 1+1.

Sirius Glass · Sep 30, 2020

When the times are not available for the Jobo processor I use the 1:1 times as a starter for replenished XTOL.

Share your replenished Xtol development times

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