Setting up a new Darkroom

[ndwgolf]

Hi
I'm currently living between Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and Phuket Thailand. At my home in Thailand I am planning to add to my home a ~400 sq/ft dark room for developing 8x10 Contact prints and using 6x6 or 4x5 negs I plan to make 24x24" & 36x24" prints...all B&W.
I have a basic idea for my darkroom layout with sinks and work tops. What I don't have a clue about is what enlarger lenses will I need for my 36x24" prints...........basically everything I will need to do all of the above.

Now Ive done a Darkroom course with Paul Gauld at the Printroom in KL and it was fantastic, so I have the basics already, I have also been shooting 6x6 for over a year and 4x5 for the last 5 months and do all the developing myself in Malaysia, I then scan and print digitally.........but its not the same, I want to get my hands wet

While I am waiting for my darkroom to be built in Thailand I want to experiment contact printing in my house in KL but there my darkroom is only 8" x 6" so barely room to swing a cat in. Anyway I'm a determined kind of guy so I want to give it a go. I saw on Tim Layton blog how he improvised with a household lamp, a timer and a few 8x10 trays so that is where I am going with this........I want to initially be able to do some contact prints in KL from my new 8x10........What do you think??

Neil

 

[tedr1]

Yes this simple method will work, four trays are needed, dev, stop, fix, rinse. If you work with RC paper then washing is quick. If the lamp can be dimmed you don't even need a timer, you can count seconds. One limitation is contrast. Probably the readily available RC papers are variable contrast, for example Ilford's Multigrade IV RC range (I like the pearl surface) rather than fixed contrast. The simple lamp arrangement does not allow for the use of a contrast control filter so the paper will behave as grade 2, normal contrast, and will be twice the normal speed (exposure time one half the time using a grade 2 filter). This means the contrast can't be adjusted by changing the contrast filter, you are stuck with normal contrast.

 

[ndwgolf]

Yes this simple method will work, four trays are needed, dev, stop, fix, rinse. If you work with RC paper then washing is quick. If the lamp can be dimmed you don't even need a timer, you can count seconds. One limitation is contrast. Probably the readily available RC papers are variable contrast, for example Ilford's Multigrade IV RC range (I like the pearl surface) rather than fixed contrast. The simple lamp arrangement does not allow for the use of a contrast control filter so the paper will behave as grade 2, normal contrast, and will be twice the normal speed (exposure time one half the time using a grade 2 filter). This means the contrast can't be adjusted by changing the contrast filter, you are stuck with normal contrast.

What about making a home made 6x6 filter holder and attaching that to the underside of the lamp then it would be possible to add a filter .....right?
The Paper I ordered from B&H is the "Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe MGD.44M Black & White Variable Contrast Paper (8 x 10", Pearl, 100 Sheets)"

 

[tedr1]

Yes a home made filter holder would work

B&H operates a smart outfit, it is a pity there is no one closer than NY!

 

[tedr1]

Regarding enlargers, print sizes and lenses. For 6x6 work a lens 75mm or 80mm is normal. The common high quality lenses all have a 39mm thread which fits most enlargers. Many 6x6 and 6x7 enlargers can cope with print sizes up to 12x16 and some 16x20. Print size 24x36 from medium format may require the enlarger head to be swung round so the image is projected on the wall or floor. Working with 4x5 the standard lens is either 135mm or 150mm. The baseboard and column height of a 4x5 is usually substantially larger than a medium format enlarger and 4x5 enlargers are big and heavy. My LPL 4x5 can project a 36x24 image without turning the head. It can be wall mounted for bigger sizes. It will also work with medium format and 35mm of course. This is a fine machine. There is a seller on ebay.com "apogeebee" with a permanent listing for this model LPL 4550XLG with VCCE module, if you chose to go 4x5 give this unit serious consideration. The best source for LPL accessories is KHBPhotografix in Canada, they have lots of useful information on the website and have many items in stock for the 4550, most other dealers in North America have stopped carrying LPL4x5 items.

 

[ndwgolf]

Regarding enlargers, print sizes and lenses. For 6x6 work a lens 75mm or 80mm is normal. The common high quality lenses all have a 39mm thread which fits most enlargers. Many 6x6 and 6x7 enlargers can cope with print sizes up to 12x16 and some 16x20. Print size 24x36 from medium format may require the enlarger head to be swung round so the image is projected on the wall or floor. Working with 4x5 the standard lens is either 135mm or 150mm. The baseboard and column height of a 4x5 is usually substantially larger than a medium format enlarger and 4x5 enlargers are big and heavy. My LPL 4x5 can project a 36x24 image without turning the head. It can be wall mounted for bigger sizes. It will also work with medium format and 35mm of course. This is a fine machine. There is a seller on ebay.com "apogeebee" with a permanent listing for this model LPL 4550XLG with VCCE module, if you chose to go 4x5 give this unit serious consideration. The best source for LPL accessories is KHBPhotografix in Canada, they have lots of useful information on the website and have many items in stock for the 4550, most other dealers in North America have stopped carrying LPL4x5 items.

This is fantastic information. Initially I will check in Thailand to see if any of the film shops have one of these for sale, as shipping something this heavy into Thailand won't be pretty
There are a few Darkroom guys in Thailand so I will make contact with them first. Looking on B&H website they say that the LPL 4550XLG does not tilt for projecting onto a wall...maybe it just needs modifying

Neil

 

[MattKing]

There are a few Darkroom guys in Thailand so I will make contact with them first. Looking on B&H website they say that the LPL 4550XLG does not tilt for projecting onto a wall...maybe it just needs modifying

KHB Photographix is the place to look for information: http://www.khbphotografix.com/LPL/
They are very helpful too!

 

[tedr1]

The XLG will do 36x24 straight, no tilt. The absolute max of the small dimension is about 28in.

It will not tilt, but the head can be reversed on the column to allow it to overhang the edge of the bench and project onto paper on the floor.

LPL made/makes a series of models for 4x5 based on the column height and variations of head, 7450/7451/7452 4550XL/XLG

some information is here http://www.khbphotografix.com/LPL/LPL4x5.htm

The diffusion lamphouse/filter module comes in three types:

color (three dichroic filter wheels, can be also used for variable contrast B&W)

BW (fixed, no variable contrast filtration)

VCCE (variable contrast, constant exposure; this is the "deluxe" B&W module, single wheel contrast adjustment 00 - 5)

 

[ndwgolf]

KHB Photographix is the place to look for information: http://www.khbphotografix.com/LPL/
They are very helpful too!

Matt
There website must be down as I keep getting this

 

[MattKing]

Try the home page: http://www.khbphotografix.com/
Also, try entering their address manually into your browser, because APUG has a built in link processor that sometimes acts up.
EDIT: both addresses work for me in both Chrome and Opera, but they may be well and truly cached on my system.

 

[tedr1]

Here is the specification page of the LPL manual that KHB sells, it shows the details of the numerous models made over the years.

The dimension "optical center" is provided, the maximum image size on the baseboard is twice this number, eg 28in for the larger models, this is the size of the smaller dimension of the image.

 

[ndwgolf]

Another question I have is when I get home to KL I will be shooting my first 8x10 on Trix320 and developing them one at a time in my small/very small darkroom in trays. I haven't tried it yet but I think I will be able to place the 4 11x14 trays side by side and be in complete darkness. Is there a nack to agitating and not spilling chemicals in the dark. Do you use gloves or tongs (I have the wooden with rubber tip tongs) to move the neg from tray to tray. What about a timer. I currently use a iPhone app to develop 120 and 4x5 film but I do them in light tight containers so everything is in daylight after the film is in the tank.
I have and use Iford 1x19 developer and fixer, I'm assuming that will be okay for my 8x10's
Sorry for all the questions??
Neil

 

[ndwgolf]

Try the home page: http://www.khbphotografix.com/
Also, try entering their address manually into your browser, because APUG has a built in link processor that sometimes acts up.
EDIT: both addresses work for me in both Chrome and Opera, but they may be well and truly cached on my system.

I get the same with Chrome to....I'll try when I get home

 

[tedr1]

Working in complete darkness is something that gets more comfortable very quickly with experience. Many people rehearse everything, first with the light on using spare film sheets, then in the dark with water in place of chemistry, before taking the plunge. It also helps if your first attempts are with images that can be repeated in case things go wrong, rather than once-in-a-lifetime shots. I seem to recall using my bare fingers to handle the film! Drips and small spills come with the territory, wear an apron/labcoat and work on a surface that is non absorbent. Ilford 1x19 is unfamiliar (was it a typo?) Follow the instructions that come with the developer for mixing instructions, temperatures, times and agitation. Most developers include detailed instructions for all the popular film types, there is probably a time listed for the film you are using. Consistency is important while learning, I suggest making detailed notes.

 

[ndwgolf]

Ilford 1x19 is unfamiliar (was it a typo?) .

IIfotec LC29

 

[Ai Print]

Looking on B&H website they say that the LPL 4550XLG does not tilt for projecting onto a wall...maybe it just needs modifying.

I have two of these enlargers with the VCCE heads and the way they are going into my new darkroom (500+ square feet ) is one will be mounted on a large custom built work table as a baseboard and the other will be wall mounted with a kit that KHB sells. The maximum print size I will do with that is 40x50" with nearly 9' foot ceilings.

B&H used to sell them but has really gotten out of the darkroom gear thing for the most part, hence the super long lead times on enlargers. I would work directly with KHB and get to know Kevin Brown, sales@khbphotografix.com and enjoy the excellent customer service of those with the best expertise in the Saunders / LPL world.

The part you want to wall mount the LPL-4550 enlarger with is L3621-53A, link is here. You will likely have to have it professionally installed since it needs to be well anchored, perfectly plumb and depending on the max print size you want to do, a standout from the wall of some distance will have to be made in order for the enlarger to remain centered on the paper at max size.

And if you go this route, you will need to engineer some form of drop table that you can both adjust and align in order to print big on the vertical. This is what I am intending to do, likely built out of a logical combo of light woods and aluminum and somewhat geared like LF camera movements to keep it aligned.

Here is what the wall mount kit looks like...

 

[John Koehrer]

Just a couple of random things.
*There are some pictures of Edward Weston making contact prints from 8X10's using a bare bulb hanging
from the ceiling. Use it for inspiration.

*At least one company had 45 degree first surface mirrors available for projecting on to a wall.

*Using bamboo tongs means be VERY careful of cross contamination. Keep them separate.

*Use a vertical rack for the trays and a separate holding tray for washing, next to the rack.
They should be staggered, with the fixer being the bottom and closest to
the table edge. Any drips will go the stop or fixer, not contaminating the developer.
There was a Richards tray rak available once upon a time look around the net for a picture to
see what I mean.

 

[eddie]

Another thing you need to consider for making large prints is focusing. Unless you have extremely long arms, it will be difficult to operate the focusing knob while looking through the grain magnifier. I can highly recommend the focus extender for the LPL enlargers, if you go that route. I use one on my 4550XLG. They're not cheap but, if you're going large, quite handy. Other manufacturers made extenders, but they can be hard to find.

 

[removed account4]

i hate to say this, but if you want to do contact printing yes a bare bulb and regular paper is OK but
, also look for silver chloride paper it is the best thing on the planet to contact print with. im not saying that because
i am trying to indoctrinate you into some weird club, but if you process your film so it is a little dense
and use a 300 watt bulb ( yeah i know it is bright ) your prints on silver chloride paper will be so easy to make
go to michaelandpaula.com for information .. they sell their own brand of paper ( lodima ) but azo paper, even 50 years old
works great, it doesn't go bad. you will be using graded paper, but that is OK with your negatives dialed in to that paper,
you won't need dodging and burning or contrast filters ...

good luck !

 

[ndwgolf]

I've managed to touch base with Kevin in Canada. Over the next couple of weeks I will try and put together a list of items that I am going to need for my new darkroom and have them shipped to Thailand in one go.

4x5 enlarger brand model xxxxxxx
Lenses for 35,120 and 4x5 negs
Large print trays
Easel's
Xxxxx
Xxxxx

I will also sit down with the guy that runs the darkroom classes in KL and see what he recommends........ especially if any of this stuff is available in Asia.

Neil

 

[tedr1]

I set up a darkroom a year ago, this is my shopping list

the shopping list (mostly used)

enlarger Saunders/LPL4550XLG VCCE with spare color head and timer
4x5 universal glass neg carrier ebay purchase $175
50 apo lens ebay purchase E206 = US$237 shipped
90 apo lens ebay purchase $218
105 lens ebay purchase $140
135mm lens ebay $85
lens panel 39 mm in hand (2)
neg carrier replacement screws KHB purchase $7
focus extension shaft KHB purchase $100
glass cleaning wipes on order McM $10
spare lamp KHB $20
enlarger manual KHB $10

small easel two blade
four blade easel 14x17 ebay purchase $130
16x20 easel (make one)
focus magnifier, Paterson ebay $20
enlarger timer LPL incl w enlarger

black-out and ventilation
window A/C unit $150
safelight (Ilford 8x10 in hand)
trays 12 x 16 four in hand
trays 16 x 20 three in hand, (white, red and green, double checked this)
process timer
print squeegee Paterson KHB $35
paper tongs
thermometers
paper dev
paper fix
stop
distilled water

gloves dry
gloves wet
towels
funnels
measuring (in hand)
fluid pump and hose
siphon hose
chem storage
waste storage
water storage

Ilford paper sample swatch KHB $25
RC paper
FB paper
enlarger table two kitchen bases and a cut-to-size top Lowes $215
sink for trays
folding table for paper/negs ebay 4ft adjustable height $65 shipped
binder+dividers+paper+hole punch for printing notes
16x20 paper wash tank ebay $200


downstairs in the finishing area
wall board display panel method 8ft x 4ft foam or pinboard or magnetic system, cork ebay purchase $65
tables and drawers IKEA purchase $500
print drying rack ebay purchase $45
blotters and press
spotting
paper cutter BH $150
flashlight

there's probably stuff I overlooked..........

 

[ndwgolf]

Wow. Now that's what I call a list..........
Let me digest this and I will get back with some questions

 

[ndwgolf]

Got some hopefully good news. I've just been offered a Meopta color enlarger up to 6x9 format for $300 here in Malaysia. They tell me you can also use it for B&W but I don't know??
I will go and see it on Saturday and if it's okay then I will get it for my home in KL.
I was talking with my wife last night and she says I can use the maids bedroom ~10'x10' in my condo in KL so if that's the case then I could be rocking and rolling with a darkroom in both my houses in Malaysia and Thailand
Man this is exciting........ I'm currently at Tenerife airport waiting for a flight to Barcelona then on to Doha and KL. Should be home tomorrow night

 

[MattKing]

Colour enlargers are fine for black and white.
I don't know whether it will be easy for you to find negative holders, lens holders and other accessories for the Meopta (or any other brand) enlarger in Malaysia.

I was talking with my wife last night and she says I can use the maids bedroom ~10'x10' in my condo in KL

Is the maid okay with that ?

 

[ndwgolf]

Colour enlargers are fine for black and white.
I don't know whether it will be easy for you to find negative holders, lens holders and other accessories for the Meopta (or any other brand) enlarger in Malaysia.

Is the maid okay with that ?

My wife is filling that gap now