Upswept curves with a kink?
You get the point, I hope, that the possibilities are infinite, but the utility of offering them isn't.
Fotoimport did a very good job.
That’s the kind of data that “informs the craft”.
You may want to take a look at this website: https://fotoimport.no/fktmax (partly with English explanations, rest self-explanatory)
We will eventually also offer hand printing, therefore it makes sense to develop for a normal diffuse setup.
Dear Koraks I come from an art background originally and have worked with master printers myself. I am more than aware of this fact. It is, obviously, in the end only about creating a print for the human who looks at it rather than a reflection measurement. But in my experience it is handy to have a proper negative to work from.Hand printing for aesthetic purposes (as opposed to technical purposes) in practice isn't just about getting the SBR to fit in the desired density range on the negative. In fact, many fine art/pro printers don't bother with any of the sensitometry and 'simply' print what their clients give them, in collaboration with the client and in accordance with their vision. This has a heck of a lot more to do with understanding the needs and vision of the people you work with than with plotting charts.
This is not to discourage you from the interesting sensitometer project, but to hopefully make you aware of the realities of doing commercial fine art printing, with fine art production being the only viable rationale for offering a darkroom printing service to begin with, in 2025.
After teaching hundreds of people how to use the BTZS system over the years, I'll offer up the advice that I give on testing. Film speed is but one step in the process. The development, your shutter, temperature drift, developer exhaustion, etc all contribute to the overall process. Getting too crazy about spectral response of film to different light sources and how that affects CI or film speed in general will make you nuts. You can't control everything but you pay close attention to consistency in your processes. We've all had negatives that were incorrectly exposed or developed far beyond the tiny factors discussed here and produced fine quality prints. Control what you can to a reasonable degree and enjoy yourself. Take this from someone with 3 sensitometers, 3 densitometers, 10 step tablets and a need to self-mix all chemistry using distilled water. Some of my best work was visually perfect and off in both exposure or development.
Dear BCM,
I appreciate this. I agree fully with you, I just like to get caught up in the details, lying in bed at night thinking about what could influence what. We have a 7 filter reverse osmosis system in our Lab and create the chemicals from scratch (or use one-shot). We have air-conditioning and follow the exact same processes. Not only that, but we have machines who rotate the drums for us.
Well it's not about controlling everything perfectly, it's about, and I have mentioned this before, a work ethic. Working in a standardized, precise manner influences every lab employees view of the work place, makes them go: This is the real deal. Making them more engaged, happier and more thoughtful.
This is my view, at least.
Also, clients who are more precise and deeper into the matter can drop off their film without having to worry, it will be properly developed. More properly than in most other labs, this is. I have visited many labs in the last couple of years and have talked to many lab techs. The B&W processes are all over the place. I would not drop off an important roll of B&W film at any lab atm.
I agree. A technical approach does not negate the need for artistic interpretation. It's about blending the two. Utilizing sensitometry helps to control the variables and allows different film types to be developed to the same point which is good for a lab. It can also be a good PR device, depending on the target customers. There can also be unintended blow back. Good topics for a new thread. I used sensitometry at the labs I worked at in Los Angeles using a calibrated EG&G Mark VI sensitometer. I also wrote my own plotting programs because I didn't like anything out there (not that I'm any good at programming). Davis' is not bad but it incorporates the BTZS concepts too much into the program without being able to turn them off, and many of the calculations are mathematical tricks to produce approximate results. This includes the flare and Delta-X calculations, and it only does relative speeds. Just be aware. There's a big difference between obtaining a curve and properly interpreting it (also a good topic for a new thread).
A lab in New York wrote a handbook about their processing. It was a good PR move, but the actual information it contained was crap. The infoimport site is better but the curve information is more for show in my opinion. They are basically just showing a single curve that isn't developed to the same point as the other tests and they use Zone System parameters to evaluate it. It basically looks impressive to the average customer, but it is practically useless in the information it conveys or what it tells you about their processing. If it is what they consider normal for each of their films, then it shows they aren't developing their films to the same point.
And even if the data is properly evaluated, application is never as straight forward as one would assume. From The Theory of the Photographic Process 3rd Edition, p 489. "Several thousand prints were involved. According to the findings, a strong correlation exists between the density range of the negative and the log exposure range of the optimum paper only if the variations in the density range are due to differences in development, level of camera exposure, or type of film. When the negative density range varies because of differences in the luminance scales of the scenes, the correlation is weak." And this from Jones, L.A., and Nelson, C.N., Control of Photographic Printing: Improvement in Terminology and Further Analysis of Results, Journal of the Optical Society of America, V. 38, No. 11, 1948. “Because of the influence of the brightness distribution and subject matter in the scenes photographed, an accurate prediction cannot always be made of the exposure scale (LER) of the paper which will give a first-choice print from a negative of known density scale (DR)… But what other course is there to follow? Either we must make the best of a somewhat imperfect relationship or face the prospect of having no criterion whatever for choosing the paper contrast grade.”
My friend Robin, a printer in the UK, never uses any technical tests at all.
I agree. A technical approach does not negate the need for artistic interpretation. Utilizing sensitometry helps to control the variables and allows all the film types to be developed to the same point which is good for a lab. It can also be a good PR device, depending on the target customers. There can also be unintended blow back. Good topics for a new thread. I used sensitometry at the labs I worked at in Los Angeles using a calibrated EG&G Mark VI sensitometer. I also wrote my own plotting programs because I didn't like anything out there (not that I'm any good at programming). Davis' is not bad but it incorporates the BTZS concepts too much and many of the calculations are mathematical tricks to produce the approximate results. This includes the flare and Delta-X calculations. Just be aware. There's a big difference between obtaining a curve and properly interpreting it (also a good topic for a new thread).
A lab in New York wrote a handbook about their processing. It was a good PR move, but the actual information was crap. The infoimport site is better but the curve information is mostly for show. They are basically just showing a single curve that isn't developed to the same point as the other tests and they use Zone System parameters to evaluate it. It basically looks impressive to the average customer, but it is practically useless in the information it conveys or what it tells you about their processing.
And even if the data is properly evaluated, application is never as straight forward as one would assume. From The Theory of the Photographic Process 3rd Edition, p 489. "Several thousand prints were involved. According to the findings, a strong correlation exists between the density range of the negative and the log exposure range of the optimum paper only if the variations in the density range are due to differences in development, level of camera exposure, or type of film. When the negative density range varies because of differences in the luminance scales of the scenes, the correlation is weak." And this from Jones, L.A., and Nelson, C.N., Control of Photographic Printing: Improvement in Terminology and Further Analysis of Results, Journal of the Optical Society of America, V. 38, No. 11, 1948. “Because of the influence of the brightness distribution and subject matter in the scenes photographed, an accurate prediction cannot always be made of the exposure scale (LER) of the paper which will give a first-choice print from a negative of known density scale (DR)… But what other course is there to follow? Either we must make the best of a somewhat imperfect relationship or face the prospect of having no criterion whatever for choosing the paper contrast grade.”
In the end, what counts is taste and skill. No matter the way. I'll update everything as I progress.That's the type of printer I'm most familiar with, yes. Anyway, good luck with your project; I'm looking forward with great interest to what comes of it.
Dear Stephen,
thanks for your reply. I am not much of a programmer and opted to go with the btzs plotter. Could you elaborate on what you mean by produces approximate results? Do you mean the linearization of the actual measurements to create smooth curves? As far as I am aware, extra calculations, such as flare, are optional. I am a bit fuzzy about the actual difference between relative and absolute testing. Why would this tool not be useful for absolute testing? I can't enter lux seconds as an x-axis? Why would Delta X calculations be approximate in this case?
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