Selenium Toning

koraks · Jan 19, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
IMHO, warmtone papers are much more interesting in selenium than neutral ones.

I don't necessarily agree with this. The effect of toners in general is stronger on warmtone papers, and certainly, warmtone papers toned in selenium tend towards a warm chocolate brown as you mention. This can be very pleasing, and indeed, I like it, too. However, I personally find the response of neutral papers to selenium just as worthwhile. For one thing, it helps to get rid of the green cast I personally don't really like. And with (much) stronger toning, the eggplant hues that selenium gives on neutral papers I personally find very beautiful. But it's all much more subtle than the strong response you get with a warmtone paper.

Chuck_P · Jan 19, 2023

koraks said:
the eggplant hues that selenium gives on neutral papers I personally find very beautiful

So do I.....and was hoping for something like that with the toned image I posted, but it tended more toward a slight magenta blue hue (as described by Matt K.) to my eyes. Perhaps the dilution was too strong or time too long, or both. I'll change it up next time.

Anon Ymous · Jan 19, 2023

Chuck_P said:
Seems I have heard others say something like this and I'm thinking of getting some warmtone paper to try it...............could you expand on why you think it is more interesting?

Oh, it's simply a matter of taste, that's all.

@koraks Yes, getting rid of the green hue is something I did with selenium toner back when I had a darkroom. But I stopped when a neutral tone was reached. It's been many years, but IIRC I used KRST diluted 1+49 or thereabouts.

koraks · Jan 19, 2023

@Chuck_P toning is fickle business, I find. In principle it's very predictable, but given the sensitivity to all sorts of factors, I've always found it difficult to control well. I don't mind though; I'm mostly fine with the happy little accidents that turn out well, even if not exactly as intended.

MattKing · Jan 19, 2023

Chuck_P said:
So do I.....and was hoping for something like that with the toned image I posted, but it tended more toward a slight magenta blue hue (as described by Matt K.) to my eyes. Perhaps the dilution was too strong or time too long, or both. I'll change it up next time.

Chuck,
The tendency toward magenta/blue that I referenced is in reference to what we saw on our screens, not the prints themselves It is almost certainly due to scanning and the difference between monitors.
Unless of course you are viewing your prints under magenta blue lights (or open sky).

Chuck_P · Jan 19, 2023

MattKing said:
Chuck,
The tendency toward magenta/blue that I referenced is in reference to what we saw on our screens, not the prints themselves It is almost certainly due to scanning and the difference between monitors.
Unless of course you are viewing your prints under magenta blue lights (or open sky).

Sorry to have confused that, but still, perhaps I should've said the slight pinkish hue when compared to the untoned print. When you said magenta, my mind registered the slight pinkish hue. Sorry.

GregY · Jan 19, 2023

Chuck_P said:
Sorry to have confused that, but still, perhaps I should've said the slight pinkish hue when compared to the untoned print. When you said magenta, my mind registered the slight pinkish hue. Sorry.

Chuck at the 1:7 dilution & 10 minutes I'm not surprised you get a pink hue.

Chuck_P · Jan 19, 2023

GregY said:
Chuck at the 1:7 dilution & 10 minutes I'm not surprised you get a pink hue.

That has been precisely my thought as well, that 1+7 is a bit too strong. Oddly, when viewing the prints side by side, the pinkish hue is very evident, when viewed separately, the toned version appears more neutral to me.

GregY · Jan 19, 2023

Chuck_P said:
That has been precisely my thought as well, that 1+7 is a bit too strong. Oddly, when viewing the prints side by side, the pinkish hue is very evident, when viewed separately, the toned version appears more neutral to me.

I can't remember but are you using Ilford RC paper? If so...they're not very responsive to selenium toning especially RC papers...when compared to Foma or old Forte or Oriental.

MattKing · Jan 19, 2023

GregY said:
I can't remember but are you using Ilford RC paper? If so...they're not very responsive to selenium toning especially RC papers...when compared to Foma or old Forte or Oriental.

Apparently it is the latest version of the Ilford RC, which I understand was designed to be more responsive to toning than the previous MGIV-RC.

Chuck_P · Jan 19, 2023

MattKing said:
Apparently it is the latest version of the Ilford RC, which I understand was designed to be more responsive to toning than the previous MGIV-RC.

When I bought my first round of chemicals I purchased just one fixer......Kodafix, I believe it is a hardening fixer. Perhaps I need to obtain a non-hardening fixer for printing and stick to the hardening fixer for my film. I wonder if that would make a difference in RC toning, seems I've read that a hardening fixer on paper can get in the way of proper toning.

MattKing · Jan 19, 2023

A hardener is unnecessary for most films as well. Kodafix is convenient, but if you want to stay with a Kodak branded product, Kodak Rapid Fixer makes more sense - just don't add the included hardener.
However, for some types of toning - not selenium - it is a good idea to fix after toning, and it actually makes sense to use a hardening fixer there, because some types of toning can make emulsions susceptible to physical damage.
The other way is to use a separate non-hardening fixer after toning and a separate hardening bath. That is where I use those little bottles of hardener that came with the Kodak Rapid fixer - mix them with water 1 + 13.

koraks · Jan 20, 2023

Chuck_P said:
Perhaps I need to obtain a non-hardening fixer for printing and stick to the hardening fixer for my film. I wonder if that would make a difference in RC toning

I doubt it; modern papers are generally already hardened much more so than they used to be decades ago. While additional hardening may further reduce permeability of the emulsion, I doubt there's all that much difference given the initial level of hardening, which is already high - especially on RC papers.

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