Seeking a very lightweight MF point and shoot camera!

[etn]

Haha! I just did! Holy shit!

Apologies, I missed the "low cost" requirement in your original post. If you decide to fork out the money for an SWC, you can always resell it later at no loss (and possibly for a profit, given the Hasselblad price evolution in the last few years.)
If you happen to travel to Munich let me know, drop by and I'll let you try mine.

 

[Joseph Bell]

Apologies, I missed the "low cost" requirement in your original post. If you decide to fork out the money for an SWC, you can always resell it later at no loss (and possibly for a profit, given the Hasselblad price evolution in the last few years.)
If you happen to travel to Munich let me know, drop by and I'll let you try mine.

Oh I was just being silly. No apologies please! Thanks truly for your generous offer.

 

[4season]

Well said and many thanks for this. I keep thinking about the Lomo for the reasons you mention. Right now I'm debating between the Lomo and the Fuji GS645s, different as they are...

Oh sorry, for some reason I keep thinking you said "GA645" which are the motorized, autofocus cameras, and my comments pertained to those cameras. There's also a GS645 Wide (manual focus rangefinder) with 45mm lens and this may also be worth a look if the "-S" model isn't wide enough for you, but I have never tried one - the closest I've ever come was the GS645 folder which was a great size. Built in light meters of the GS-series cameras aren't TTL but I recall them being accurate.

Of course you realize that no matter what you buy, you're always going to wonder what the alternative might've been like, right? Haha, happy shopping.

 

[Helge]

Sounds like a Nettar 6x6 or Novar equipped Ikonta is the only right camera for you.

They are cheap and plentiful and very, very underrated.

The magic of 6x6 is that as a square format it uses the lens projection circle to its fullest, you never have to worry about turning the camera in portrait position and there is plenty of resolution, to crop to just about any format you’d want.
You can even get a slight tele effect by cropping out the centre of the frame. Good for portraits to simulate a 80 - 100mm.

You want the f4.5 or lower lens. 6.5 is simply too limiting and there is no price difference.

The 4.5 setting is quite soft in anything but the center, but still usable for low light shots.
It’s very possible to stop down and shoot at longer shutter speeds or with bulb.
The following shot was with a 1936 Nettar that didn’t go below f7.5, on Portra 400 rated at 800 @3 seconds on the build in stand.
People will blur if they are not still, as visible.

With faster films like the two B&W 3200 or pushed Portra, and a tripod or using the build in kickstand, you should be able to get down to manageable times and DoF in tungsten type light for even kids though.
Or just bring a flash.

The larger format means that you can stop down very far without getting diffraction effects.
f11 or 16 is really the sweetspot for most medium format cameras for ultimate sharpness and large DoF.

If you are where even semi serious about the wide stuff, (which you’ll always pay a lot for with medium format, lens wise) it’s possible to simulate wide with two or more slightly overlapping exposures.
You can get the seam down to nothing in post, even in the darkroom with precise use of feathering.

 

[M-88]

Sounds like a Nettar 6x6 or Novar equipped Ikonta is the only right camera for you.

They are cheap and plentiful and very, very underrated.

The magic of 6x6 is that as a square format it uses the lens projection circle to its fullest, you never have to worry about turning the camera in portrait position and there is plenty of resolution, to crop to just about any format you’d want.
You can even get a slight tele effect by cropping out the centre of the frame. Good for portraits to simulate a 80 - 100mm.

You want the f4.5 or lower lens. 6.5 is simply too limiting and there is no price difference.

The 4.5 setting is quite soft in anything but the center, but still usable for low light shots.
It’s very possible to stop down and shoot at longer shutter speeds or with bulb.
The following shot was with a 1936 Nettar that didn’t go below f7.5, on Portra 400 rated at 800 @3 seconds on the build in stand.
People will blur if they are not still, as visible.

With faster films like the two B&W 3200 or pushed Portra, and a tripod or using the build in kickstand, you should be able to get down to manageable times and DoF in tungsten type light for even kids though.
Or just bring a flash.

The larger format means that you can stop down very far without getting diffraction effects.
f11 or 16 is really the sweetspot for most medium format cameras for ultimate sharpness and large DoF.

If you are where even semi serious about the wide stuff, (which you’ll always pay a lot for with medium format, lens wise) it’s possible to simulate wide with two or more slightly overlapping exposures.
You can get the seam down to nothing in post, even in the darkroom with precise use of feathering.

You summed up my own experience with Nettar pretty nicely (I also recommended it in Post No. 10). The only thing I truly miss is a rangefinder with that camera, everything else can be adjusted to. Okay, I can also adjust to not using a rangefinder, but I miss focus more often than not. And Novar is not that bad after f/8.

 

[Helge]

You summed up my own experience with Nettar pretty nicely (I also recommended it in Post No. 10). The only thing I truly miss is a rangefinder with that camera, everything else can be adjusted to. Okay, I can also adjust to not using a rangefinder, but I miss focus more often than not. And Novar is not that bad after f/8.

I find it’s remarkably precise to judge distances with your eyes if you train yourself.
The key is to have a meter stick to look at daily (or foot if that’s how you roll) and get real familiar with exactly how long that is.
Then imagine it laid out end to end a number of times away from you to your subject.
Your judgement will get less precise the further away you get. But your DoF of sharp, will also get comparatively much deeper.
Then you’ll be able to guess distances within a margin of 10 cm or so, for near field.
That’s a skill that will come in handy a lot in photography and life in general.

That said, a rangefinder can be nice.
They come in a myriad of types from old to new laser ones.
I much prefer external rangefinders.
What they lack in overall compactness, they more than make up for in being far more user serviceable and potentially precise than build in ones.
I can easily take apart, clean and adjust a Telex or Precisa RF, without risking the whole camera.

For real close focus for subjects within a meter or two , just bring measuring tape.
It’s more precise and fast than fiddling with a rangefinder anyway.
Using closeup lenses (which I highly recommend playing around with) your need a measuring tape anyway.

 

[MattKing]

That’s a skill that will come in handy a lot in photography and life in general.

+1
I use it regularly if I am shopping for something like furniture that needs to fit in a particular space - I can usually tell in a glance whether it is worthwhile to use a tape measure to check.
It really frustrates my wife when I tell her immediately that something won't fit!

 

[M-88]

I find it’s remarkably precise to judge distances with your eyes if you train yourself.
The key is to have a meter stick to look at daily (or foot if that’s how you roll) and get real familiar with exactly how long that is.
Then imagine it laid out end to end a number of times away from you to your subject.
Your judgement will get less precise the further away you get. But your DoF of sharp, will also get comparatively much deeper.
Then you’ll be able to guess distances within a margin of 10 cm or so, for near field.
That’s a skill that will come in handy a lot in photography and life in general.

That said, a rangefinder can be nice.
They come in a myriad of types from old to new laser ones.
I much prefer external rangefinders.
What they lack in overall compactness, they more than make up for in being far more user serviceable and potentially precise than build in ones.
I can easily take apart, clean and adjust a Telex or Precisa RF, without risking the whole camera.

For real close focus for subjects within a meter or two , just bring measuring tape.
It’s more precise and fast than fiddling with a rangefinder anyway.
Using closeup lenses (which I highly recommend playing around with) your need a measuring tape anyway.

The thing is - I am an architect and I can eyeball the distance pretty well. However, when shooting between f/4.5-f/8, where DoF is not as deep, I overshot quite a lot of rames when working at close range. I clearly need more practice, as you said it yourself. The cheapest option here is Soviet "Blik" rangefinder. But it has metric units and my Nettar, oddly enough, has imperial units. Not sure why. I'm not saying that dividing by three for converting is difficult, but it's still an extra step in photographic process.

 

[Helge]

The thing is - I am an architect and I can eyeball the distance pretty well. However, when shooting between f/4.5-f/8, where DoF is not as deep, I overshot quite a lot of rames when working at close range. I clearly need more practice, as you said it yourself. The cheapest option here is Soviet "Blik" rangefinder. But it has metric units and my Nettar, oddly enough, has imperial units. Not sure why. I'm not saying that dividing by three for converting is difficult, but it's still an extra step in photographic process.

Check if your lens focuses correctly in the first place. It’s not uncommon for someone who thought “I can do this”, wanting to lube or clean, to have taken it apart and then never checked for correct collamination.

The very cheapest option is a rangefinder card and it actually works very well once you get the hang of using it.
Hint:
Use two outstretched arms as the reference. It’s more stable and precise than one lone wobbly arm outstretched.
It doesn’t need to be a card. I have made a Dymo strip I glue to the back upper edge of some cameras.

But decent rangefinders go for peanuts anyway.

 

[M-88]

Check if your lens focuses correctly in the first place. It’s not uncommon for someone who thought “I can do this”, wanting to lube or clean, to have taken it apart and then never checked for correct collamination.

The very cheapest option is a rangefinder card and it actually works very well once you get the hang of using it.
Hint:
Use two outstretched arms as the reference. It’s more stable and precise than one lone wobbly arm outstretched.
It doesn’t need to be a card. I have made a Dymo strip I glue to the back upper edge of some cameras.

But decent rangefinders go for peanuts anyway.

I used a ground glass from my now deceased Yashica 124 (put it on film plane and then checked for correct focus at known distances, including "infinity") and the camera seems to focus correctly. So the problem is in me - Nettar is far better at taking pictures than me.