Second sharpest after Mamiya 7?

hankchinaski · Feb 6, 2023

In term of sharpness only, what system (or individual lens) comes after the Mamiya 7?
As far as personal experience goes, I will cite the Rollei Apo-Symmar 90mm Makro.

Frank53 · Feb 6, 2023

Do you mean that Mamiya 7 is the sharpest?

hankchinaski · Feb 6, 2023

Frank53 said:
Do you mean that Mamiya 7 is the sharpest?

They do:

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The wide angle lenses, in particular the 43mm f4.5, are regarded as some of the sharpest lenses ever made. Anecdotally, we know many people who give up large format kits for a Mamiya 7 because it’s hard to tell the difference in sharpness except at the absolute largest print size.

250swb · Feb 6, 2023

Fuji rangefinders, GW690, GW670 etc. but probably a bit sharper than Mamiya 7.

brian steinberger · Feb 6, 2023

Mamiya 6 is as sharp as Mamiya 7. Also Bronica RF645 in my opinion is just as sharp as both of them. I was actually just staring at negatives from all three systems last evening under a loop. Can’t tell a difference.

ic-racer · Feb 6, 2023

hankchinaski said:
In term of sharpness only, what system (or individual lens) comes after the Mamiya 7?
As far as personal experience goes, I will cite the Rollei Apo-Symmar 90mm Makro.

Where did you find the MTF or test results on the Mamiya 7 lens?

Sure the 90mm is very sharp in the center, but if one were to want the corners sharp, the 120 Makro Apogon might be better.

OAPOli · Feb 6, 2023

Here are some MTF:
plus more on photodo: e.g. http://www.photodo.com/lens/Mamiya-N-80mm-f4-L-677/images (the two sources don't match exactly)

hankchinaski · Feb 6, 2023

OAPOli said:
Here are some MTF:
plus more on photodo: e.g. http://www.photodo.com/lens/Mamiya-N-80mm-f4-L-677/images (the two sources don't match exactly)

Sorry guys I'm not very technical - so this means that the makro-apogon is sharper than mamiya's (and apo-symmar)?

Philippe-Georges · Feb 6, 2023

According to Henri Cartier-Bresson: "sharpness is a bourgeois concept..." (but he himself was a descendant of a very bourgeois family).

OAPOli · Feb 6, 2023

hankchinaski said:
Sorry guys I'm not very technical - so this means that the makro-apogon is sharper than mamiya's (and apo-symmar)?

In practice all these lenses are excellent. Rollei lenses might have an advantage because of the reflex focusing.

What is a lens MTF chart and how do I read it | NIKKOR lens technology | Nikon

An MTF chart is a measurement used to evaluate the performance of a lens. This article teaches you how to read it.

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Klaus_H · Feb 6, 2023

In many cases the sharpness of a photo is influenced more by the use of a tripod than by the optical quality of the lens.

brian steinberger · Feb 6, 2023

Klaus_H said:
In many cases the sharpness of a photo is influenced more by the use of a tripod than by the optical quality of the lens.

Bingo. And nailing focus

hankchinaski · Feb 6, 2023

Philippe-Georges said:
According to Henri Cartier-Bresson: "sharpness is a bourgeois concept..." (but he himself was a descendant of a very bourgeois family).

Especially considering the price of the Mamiya 7!

hankchinaski · Feb 6, 2023

brian steinberger said:
Bingo. And nailing focus

Also...I read somewhere that MF lenses have generally less resolving power than 135 lenses - is it also the case for large format lenses?

Philippe-Georges · Feb 6, 2023

Klaus_H said:
In many cases the sharpness of a photo is influenced more by the use of a tripod than by the optical quality of the lens.

And a good focusing screen and dito loupe...

Paul Howell · Feb 6, 2023

hankchinaski said:
Also...I read somewhere that MF lenses have generally less resolving power than 135 lenses - is it also the case for large format lenses?

I have not read that, but seems to me that a good design will have the same resolving power across formats. On the other hand the larger the format the less resolving power becomes an issue, size does matter.

Steven Lee · Feb 6, 2023

hankchinaski said:
They do

You are citing a commercial published by a used camera seller. There is no useful information on that web page.

hankchinaski · Feb 6, 2023

Steven Lee said:
You are citing a commercial published by a used camera seller. There is no useful information on that web page.

This is true -also, no mention of Rolleiflex 6000 system...

Paul Ozzello · Feb 6, 2023

brian steinberger said:
Bingo. And nailing focus

Bingo what ? Any camera can be used with a tripod and properly focused.

abruzzi · Feb 6, 2023

Paul Howell said:
I have not read that, but seems to me that a good design will have the same resolving power across formats.

I have seen it asserted here and elsewhere, but I haven't seen anything to back it up.

brian steinberger · Feb 6, 2023

Paul Ozzello said:
Bingo what ? Any camera can be used with a tripod and properly focused.

I think we’re saying the same thing. Tripod and proper focus will result in sharp images with many lenses. There are certainly differences in lenses but alot of this is splitting hairs.

Paul Howell · Feb 6, 2023

As important as the is lens is which film. If you shoot Tmax 400 a lens needs to resolve 125LPMM, Tmax 100 then 200 LPMM, my Kowa and Mamiya lens will resolve 200 LPMM while my Kodak Tourist I doubt will resolve more than 125 or so. TriX, Foma Action HP5 and other traditionally grain films will resolve less.

ic-racer · Feb 6, 2023

Klaus_H said:
In many cases the sharpness of a photo is influenced more by the use of a tripod than by the optical quality of the lens.

Exactly and confounding factor is the Mamiya is billed as a hand-held camera. Of course it does have a tripod socket, and flash photography is an area where hand-held cameras can excel in sharpness.

Looking at the MTF posted above in #7 (thank you!) the 80mm looks good. But of course, they are all going to work fine.

I have eight lenses of the Rolleiflex 6008 system (not the 90, however) but I had my Rolleicord with it's Xenar and a tripod the other day to take this:

btaylor · Feb 6, 2023

I have had my Rolleicord Va for over 40 years- the results I get from the Xenar impress me every time I use it. Of course this does not address the OP’s subject directly, but I must say none of the MF optics I have used (Hasselblad, Rollei, Kowa, Bronica, Mamiya) have felt wanting for sharpness.

warden · Feb 6, 2023

btaylor said:
I have had my Rolleicord Va for over 40 years- the results I get from the Xenar impress me every time I use it. Of course this does not address the OP’s subject directly, but I must say none of the MF optics I have used (Hasselblad, Rollei, Kowa, Bronica, Mamiya) have felt wanting for sharpness.

Ditto. Unless you print large there are many MF lenses that are plenty sharp enough.

Second sharpest after Mamiya 7?

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