Sebastião Salgado's Genesis - How did he do it?

[Alan Edward Klein]

I suspect your opinion is a problem of having too much knowledge about the process. Kind of like the Folgers taste test: everyone loves it until they find out it's Folgers, which is, in many minds (including mine), synonymous with doodoo. "Gads! I'd never drink that crap! It wasn't distilled in a darkroom!"

So he switched to digital? We're talking about one of the greatest, most dedicated photographers of our lifetime. Plus, he's 69 years old!

As Austin Powers would say: "cut me some fricking slack, people!"

Clyde Butcher, a large format and ULF BW film photographer for decades switched to digital because of his age too. I saw both types of prints in his Venice Florida gallery and both were terrific up to 60" or more. Of course, I'm not an expert in prints.

The prices were different of course.

Clyde Butcher | Black & White Fine Art Photography - Black & White Fine Art Photography

Black & White Fine Art Photography

clydebutcher.com

 

[GregY]

I always liked Sebastiao Salgado's early work.......reviewed on the net & photos seen in books & magazines. A couple of years ago there was IMO a somewhat odd show at the Whyte Museum in Banff..... mountain photographs of the Saint Elias Range by... Bradford Washburn & Sebastiao Salgado. The Washburn prints were silver gelatin originals from the Parks Canada Centre in Whitehorse, not the currently available digital prints.
The difference between the Washburn photos and the digital capture/digital prints of Salgado was stark.
This summer I was in Paris & there was a Salgado show...200 photos...large screen projection & music... I didn't spend the money to see the extravaganza. His new work is much too HD for me to appreciate.
I've seen fine digital prints.... William Clift's at the New Mexico Museum of Art & some truly magnificent "monumental prints" (as big as 33" x 86") by Jay Dusard, when we visited at his printer's place in Scottsdale. The Salgado work was at the other end of the scale.... "chalk & cheese" as the British would say..... & was really stood up by the Washburn prints.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Having different prints could be a great advantage when pricing. Instead of just having one price for let's say chemical prints, you create a choice by also have digital. Besides opening the market for buyers who can't spend so much, you can push the chemical ones even higher than if they were the only ones to sell. It's good merchandising.

It's like Calvin Klein who has the cheap line for Macy's and other outlets, Then they have the purple line which is more exclusively priced.

 

[GregY]

.....you can always sell posters Alan......
Thankfully not every artist is into 'marketing' IMO

 

[Pieter12]

Having different prints could be a great advantage when pricing. Instead of just having one price for let's say chemical prints, you create a choice by also have digital. Besides opening the market for buyers who can't spend so much, you can push the chemical ones even higher than if they were the only ones to sell. It's good merchandising.

It's like Calvin Klein who has the cheap line for Macy's and other outlets, Then they have the purple line which is more exclusively priced.

For collectable, well-known photographers work, the cost of equivalent size prints doesn't vary much whether silver or inkjet. The biggest part of the cost is the artist's work. Plus of course the gallery mark-up, matting and framing.

 

[MattKing]

So Bob, is the problem that he shot digitally, or that the prints were made differently?

Unfortunately, Bob hasn't been participating here for a couple of years, so I would be surprised (and happy) to see him respond.

 

[GregY]

Unfortunately, Bob hasn't been participating here for a couple of years, so I would be surprised (and happy) to see him respond.

So Bob, is the problem that he shot digitally, or that the prints were made differently?

Post #16: Bob Carnie (2013)
"I think his editing of Genesis is a bit off and the printmaking has suffered with his move to digital.. There are really good inkjet prints out there, don't get me wrong. But this body of work seems rushed and not up to the quality level of 15 years ago.

some of the imagery , or to be honest a lot of the imagery is first rate, the finish is where I have problems."

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

For collectable, well-known photographers work, the cost of equivalent size prints doesn't vary much whether silver or inkjet. The biggest part of the cost is the artist's work. Plus of course the gallery mark-up, matting and framing.

There's a substantial difference in Clyde Butchers' pricing between these. How can you say the post work is very little different when digital can be run off in quantity after the first is edited and created while chemical requires each one to be hand printed, developed, spotted, etc. Loads more labor.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Post #16: Bob Carnie (2013)
"I think his editing of Genesis is a bit off and the printmaking has suffered with his move to digital.. There are really good inkjet prints out there, don't get me wrong. But this body of work seems rushed and not up to the quality level of 15 years ago.

some of the imagery , or to be honest a lot of the imagery is first rate, the finish is where I have problems."

Yes, thanks Greg. I noticed those posts after posting my own questions. This reminds me even when I hire a plumber or electrician, even from the same company, each one comes with their own experience and you get different quality work.

 

[Pieter12]

There's a substantial difference in Clyde Butchers' pricing between these. How can you say the post work is very little different when digital can be run off in quantity after the first is edited and created while chemical requires each one to be hand printed, developed, spotted, etc. Loads more labor.

I'm not sure how collectable Mr Butcher's work is. Open editions are generally much less than limited ones, digital or silver gelatin. Once again, although the fact that a print has been made by the photographer is a factor, the lion's share of the price of a collectable photo is the artist's vision, not just the craftsmanship of the print. And estate printed is less, too. Bret Weston's prints of his father's work are better IMO than what Edward printed, not sure what the market says.

 

[GregY]

Yes, thanks Greg. I noticed those posts after posting my own questions. This reminds me even when I hire a plumber or electrician, even from the same company, each one comes with their own experience and you get different quality work.

Alan, I really liked Salgado's early work. The mountain prints of his i saw were really disappointing in quality. They seemed oversharpened. The deep shadow were dead...& the general contrast seemed pumped up like bad HD.....That would have been my impression if i had seen them alone.....with Washburn's originals in the same room they were even more disappointing.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'm not sure how collectable Mr Butcher's work is. Open editions are generally much less than limited ones, digital or silver gelatin. Once again, although the fact that a print has been made by the photographer is a factor, the lion's share of the price of a collectable photo is the artist's vision, not just the craftsmanship of the print. And estate printed is less, too. Bret Weston's prints of his father's work are better IMO than what Edward printed, not sure what the market says.

He gets $9000 or so for 60" print. Someone's buying them.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Alan, I really liked Salgado's early work. The mountain prints of his i saw were really disappointing in quality. They seemed oversharpened. The deep shadow were dead...& the general contrast seemed pumped up like bad HD.....That would have been my impression if i had seen them alone.....with Washburn's originals in the same room they were even more disappointing.

Why did they mix and match in the same room? That's poor curating. Our eyes often adjust for lighting and differences in things so we don't even notice. But as soon as you put two up there to compare, then there's always one that looks worse.

 

[GregY]

Why did they mix and match in the same room? That's poor curating. Our eyes often adjust for lighting and differences in things so we don't even notice. But as soon as you put two up there to compare, then there's always one that looks worse.

Alan the show title, was "The Saint Elias Mountains" & somehow they curated it as a two man show. I had never seen a Salgado mountain photo or a Washburn photo that wasn't. .... They weren't interspersed. Washburns were on one side of the room and the Salgado's on the other. It looked odd too..... one had a deep experience of aerial photography in large format..... Salgado was pretty much a dabbler. I didn't even know he had visited Canada.
I've also seen a very large Bradford Washburn show....& it was right up there with Vittorio Sella's work.... at the pinnacle of mountain photography.
The Whyte Museum of the Canadian Rockies is a first class operation and the lighting and general set-up was superb. Small format digital and poor digital printing was, IMO the achilles heel of the show for the Salgado material.

 

[Pieter12]

He gets $9000 or so for 60" print. Someone's buying them.

Because he and maybe his gallery have priced them at 9 grand doesn't mean much. How many does he sell at that price? I have to admit I'm biased, I don't find traditional landscapes very appealing, so I don't see the value there.

I have a friend who is a fine art painter, has had museum and gallery shows, whose work is priced at 15 grand or so, depending on the size. Galleries and independent consultants have told him that his prices were fair or even low. He hasn't sold a thing in years.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Because he and maybe his gallery have priced them at 9 grand doesn't mean much. How many does he sell at that price? I have to admit I'm biased, I don't find traditional landscapes very appealing, so I don't see the value there.

I have a friend who is a fine art painter, has had museum and gallery shows, whose work is priced at 15 grand or so, depending on the size. Galleries and independent consultants have told him that his prices were fair or even low. He hasn't sold a thing in years.

I can only speak for Clyde Butcher because I visited his gallery in Venice Florida. There, he had and huge darkroom and printer for his digital work. He had a few people there spotting huge prints and packaging them up for shipment while my wife and I visited. So with that staff and store, he has to be selling stuff. His prices were a lot lower when we were there, probably 70% lower. So if he raised them so much, he must be selling a lot. We only could afford his calendar or small book, I forget which. Also we bought his wife's couple of paintings she colorizes BW prints, an artist in her own right.