Searching for Ammonium Dichromate

[Uncle Goose]

Hey,

After a long time I am getting back into Gum Printing but this also means my stock of ammonium dichromate is getting smaller. I want to replenish my stock but I'm searching for a place that actually sells it. I'm living in Belgium and it seems that getting Ammonium Dichromate is more difficult to get than an illegal weapon here. Anybody an idea on a source in Belgium or in the EU zone (that ships abroad)? Pharmacists are a no go here and lab suppliers only supply to companies here in Belgium.

Thanx in advance
Filip (Ghent)

 

[flemming sarup]

I hope you find a dealer, I use Postassium Dichromate and are very satisfied with it.
Visit my gumprint: http://www.alternativephotography.com/artists/flemming_sarup.html

 

[eclarke]

Tell me, here in the US there's a movement to allow everybody to conceal and carry firearms but making a photograph is being criminalized...and they want us to vote for the morons who are spawning this lunacy..EC

 

[Jerevan]

I don't know if you can get it from the Netherlands: http://www.labstuff.nl/ or http://www.hekserij.nl/index.htm

I just took the links from an older thread that I remembered, so I have no experience with them.

People doing pyrotechnics use the ammonium dichromate, as far as I know it, so if you can find someone doing fireworks...

 

[Uncle Goose]

Unfortunately labstuff seems to be a dead site, there has been a notice on that site for months now that they don't take any new orders because they are too busy. And the other one doesn't carry Ammonium Dichromate. Concerning people who do pyrotechnics, I don't know any. As for now I have found a company in the Netherlands who should deliver to private persons and to Belgium but their shippingfees are quite high but I took the gamble to order 500gr. Still out however for a more domestic source.

I don't know if you can get it from the Netherlands: http://www.labstuff.nl/ or http://www.hekserij.nl/index.htm

I just took the links from an older thread that I remembered, so I have no experience with them.

People doing pyrotechnics use the ammonium dichromate, as far as I know it, so if you can find someone doing fireworks...

 

[Jerevan]

Yeah, sorry about that! I didn't see the notice. But good that you found one source for the time being. Unless you do huge murals, I guess 500 gr will get you a good bit of printing done.

 

[BBMOR]

hey
the easiest source for Potassium dichromate in belgium is "permadocument " it is located in Bx and is sending by post
succes

 

[Uncle Goose]

hey
the easiest source for Potassium dichromate in belgium is "permadocument " it is located in Bx and is sending by post
succes

Yeah, I know Permadocument but they are pretty pricy, if I order 500gr. it's more expensive than ordering it from the Netherlands, go figure. Also I ordered my first batch from them and I was horrified by the packaging of the Ammonium Dichromate, it was just packed in a thin plastic freezer bag. It's still a dangerous chemical and should be treated like that.

 

[paul_c5x4]

Dichromates should not be shipped in ziploc or similar packaging, nor should it be sent in the normal post - Many chemicals (both wet and dry) are illegal to ship that way. Consider reporting the company to the relevant authorities.

 

[Loris Medici]

Won't comment about the deal / shipment (don't approve it), BUT, Roger is a good guy!

 

[Uncle Goose]

So, my 500gr Ammonium Dichromate came trough today!! Very fast I must say, I ordered it on Saturday and it's already here. It was well packed in a sturdy plastic container just like it should. The company who has send it to me may expect repeat business with me.

 

[gmikol]

Out of curiosity, how much did your dichromate cost, and how much were the shipping fees?

--Greg

 

[Uncle Goose]

the Ammonium Dichromate (500g) itself costed me 32.25 Euro without tax (19%), shipping was a whopping 27 Euro without tax (possibly they used a fast courier service, hence the expense and it's flat rate so if you order more it stays the same). All in all it grossed out on 69.33 Euro tax included. Pretty expensive for such a small quantity but it's not that there are many options to choose from here in retarded Belgium. Like I said, it's easier to get illegal weapons and even more easy to get illegal hard drugs than this harmless (if used correctly!) chemical.

 

[gmikol]

That doesn't seem too far out of line, actually.

Bostick & Sullivan have it at USD$72, the Formulary at USD$69 (454 grams). Both likely have a haz-mat shipping fee of $25 additional.

That comes out to around 70 euro, at today's exchange rates.

--Greg

 

[Jerevan]

I also thought it was a bit on the expensive side, but now when I checked, my price for 600 grams came out to about 70 euros too (43 euros and the rest tax and shipping).

 

[JanMeut]

Just like with potassium dichromate it is not allowed to sell ammonium dichromate (or any other chromium VI substance) to private persons in the European Union. Some suppliers still don't know this. For businesses it might be easier to purchase, but in case you are not known as a chemical business that still might be problematic.

The reason behind it: it is a well known strong carcinogen.

 

[AgX]

Chiba System

http://www.polychrome.nl/file_download/3/


"Achieving non-toxicity for these systems means replacing the dichromate
sensitizer and secondly to avoid the practise of hardening the substrate. An
alternative sensitizer is presented and hardening is avoided by using modified
working methods.
The chemistry utilised for this purpose is iron based, red-ox induced, free radical
polymerization. The sensitizer is ammonium ferric citrate, using either hydrogen
peroxide or ammonium persulphate as developer."

 

[Uncle Goose]

The reason behind it: it is a well known strong carcinogen.

So are cigarettes and the like but those are easy to get. I find such regulations very dubious to say the least, after all, who would order stuff like that if they didn't have a practical use for it and know what they are doing? I don't think people with no idea of what a Gum Print is would ever order Ammonium Dichormate.

 

[Uncle Goose]

Chiba System

http://www.polychrome.nl/file_download/3/


"Achieving non-toxicity for these systems means replacing the dichromate
sensitizer and secondly to avoid the practise of hardening the substrate. An
alternative sensitizer is presented and hardening is avoided by using modified
working methods.
The chemistry utilised for this purpose is iron based, red-ox induced, free radical
polymerization. The sensitizer is ammonium ferric citrate, using either hydrogen
peroxide or ammonium persulphate as developer."

Interesting read you linked here, I've send it straight to my e-reader to investigate this option further. Thanx.

 

[JanMeut]

I don't make the laws, and I do not always agree to them. Politicians in general have not the slightest knowledge of toxicology and several are chemophobics.

On the other hand: there are quite some idiots around that do not use dangerous chemicals with the respect they deserve. Maybe it therefor is not unwise to try to protect these people against themselves.

 

[ced]

Uncle Goose here is some info: Droguerie<Le Lion> Rue De Laeken 55 Brussels 1000 tel 02-217 42 02
Hope this helps, it is a fabulous quaint old style shop (take your camera with). The chemicals are quite expensive and I think minimum 100grm per item

 

[John Shriver]

The European Union is the folks who brought us RoHS, which has caused the long-term reliability of any electronics to plummet, as lead-free solder is subject to growing "tin whiskers" that short out the circuit. RoHS's bans on lead were too late to matter, the source lead in the waste stream was almost entirely cathode ray tubes (lead crystal glass for X-ray shielding), which are obsolete and no longer manufactured. Of course RoHS did nothing about the largest source of lead in the waste stream: car batteries. Haven't seen those in "lead free" yet...

So passing silly rules about chemicals that deserve careful handing is just a EU sort of thing to do.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

There is a double whammy with ammonium dichromate. In addition to the Cr (VI) toxicity it is also flammable. This may explain the high shipping cost.

The EU is a perfect example of governennt out of control. I bet there are a lot of people who would like to get out of it. Even here in the US we have to put up with some of the idiocies coming from Brussels.

Instead of spending time developing a sound monetary policy the EU has been distracted with other things where they should not be. Why shouldn't responsible people be allowed to buy certain chemicals?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

On the other hand: there are quite some idiots around that do not use dangerous chemicals with the respect they deserve. Maybe it therefor is not unwise to try to protect these people against themselves.

Darwin in action. The solution is to allow these people to remove themselves from the human gene pool. A recent paper presented at a US university found that the human race is getting stupider. After millenia with the average IQ rising it has now started to fall. The problem seems to be that the human race no longer has to deal with the dangers of a primitive environment. There is nothing to weed out the stupid people.