• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Scratched Negs: Am I worse than a mini-lab?

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
201,728
Messages
2,829,197
Members
100,916
Latest member
mikenickmann99
Recent bookmarks
0

mooseontheloose

Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,110
Location
Kyoto, Japan
Format
Multi Format
Oy! :confused:

So I'm starting to make inroads on the 40+ rolls that have been begging me to develop them since last June. I haven't had any problems, so I thought, until I scanned a few pics of my nephews to send to my brother. Every single neg (on several different rolls of 135 Tri-X, all shot over a period of several months) had a least one scratch (always horizontal, always straight and parallel). Some of the scratches are a little short, some run for at least half the negative. Upon closer inspection it appears that the non-emulsion side of the negatives are all scratched up -- there are many, many lines running across the negs (more than show up in the scans). I'm not sure if it's me, the developing process, the camera, or the film itself.

I'm developing in small SS or Paterson type tanks. I do not use bulk-loaded film, and I don't pull it out of the cassette (I pop open the lid). I load the film in a changing bag, develop and fix as usual, then hang to dry. I do not squeegee the film in any way. (this is the way I have always done it). I thought perhaps it might be the printfile sleeves or the scanner, but the scratches are there before I put them in either of them. I thought it was me, the way I load the reels, but older negs loaded in the same way don't exhibit these scratches, and the 120 negs I've developed recently are also scratch-free. Then I thought it was the camera (I use 2 Nikon Fe's interchangeably) -- but it seems a little strange that the camera would consistently scratch negs across entirely different rolls. Could it be the film? That doesn't seem likely, but I'm trying to figure out where they come from. Again, they are only on the non-emulsion side.

Basically, I want to save the 30+ rolls I have left to develop. If it's the film, or the camera, there's nothing I can do about it (except saving future rolls), but if it's something else, perhaps I can change what I'm doing. I haven't been able to print any by enlarger (that's another long story) so I'm not sure if they'll show up as badly as they do with a computer scan. Obviously I can fix things via the computer, but that's not what I want to do. I rather have good negs I can print from (once I have access to an enlarger again).

I'm attaching a crop of the neg here. I hope it comes out well enough to see the scratches. Any ideas of where they're coming from would be a great help.
 

Attachments

  • Scratced-neg.jpg
    Scratced-neg.jpg
    75.3 KB · Views: 227

Nick Zentena

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
4,666
Location
Italia
Format
Multi Format
Always the same spot? I bet camera.

Pick up a cheap roll of C-41 for each of the two offending cameras. Shoot the film and send it out to a minilab. If it's the camera you'll hopefully see it.
 

Phillip P. Dimor

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
1,057
Location
Westport, MA
Format
Large Format
At least you probably don't lose your own film.. That's not too bad of a scratch. Have you checked the inside of your camera? Feel around with your fingertips, around the film gate. The path that the film travels through the camera.. mine had a 'nick' which scratched every other roll I put through.
 

PHOTOTONE

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
2,412
Location
Van Buren, A
Format
Large Format
It appears to be a camera caused scratch. Nothing you can do at this point, except retouch your prints, or use Edwal No-Scratch on the negative when you print it. It will temporarily fill in the scratch allowing you to print the image without the scratch being visible. You then have to clean off the negative with film cleaner before you store it.
 

firecracker

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
1,950
Location
Japan
Format
35mm
Upon closer inspection it appears that the non-emulsion side of the negatives are all scratched up -- there are many, many lines running across the negs (more than show up in the scans). I'm not sure if it's me, the developing process, the camera, or the film itself.

Don't worry so much. If the scatches are on the non-emulsion side and not that deep, any kind of oil can cover that. When printing, put your nose oil where the scractches are. Usually this does the job. And wipe it off when done printing.

Edwal No Scratch is is a good product, but it's pretty thick and you can work with much less oil than that, I think.
 

tim_walls

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
1,122
Location
Bucuresti, R
Format
35mm
I haven't been able to print any by enlarger (that's another long story) so I'm not sure if they'll show up as badly as they do with a computer scan. Obviously I can fix things via the computer, but that's not what I want to do. I rather have good negs I can print from (once I have access to an enlarger again).
If it's any help, I occasionally have the same problems - usually with bulk loaded film to be fair - but I can assure you that in my experience my scanner picks up even the tiniest scratch on the non-emulsion side and magnifies it into a hideous problem; I've printed the exact same negative with my (condensor) enlarger and not even been able to spot the problem. I imagine a diffusion enlarger would cover the it up entirely.

Oh, nose oil for what it's worth is the oil from the (out)side of your nose! It was only starting traditional photography that led me to the discovery that having slightly oily skin around the old schnozz wasn't a problem unique to me :smile:.
 

2F/2F

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
8,031
Location
Los Angeles,
Format
Multi Format
I would take a good look at your pressure plate. There is likely something on it causing the scratches.
 

firecracker

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
1,950
Location
Japan
Format
35mm
I can assure you that in my experience my scanner picks up even the tiniest scratch on the non-emulsion side and magnifies it into a hideous problem; I've printed the exact same negative with my (condensor) enlarger and not even been able to spot the problem.

I agree. Scanners make people paranoid because they show everything.

I have some scratched negs from the past, and this weekend I was printing a few images from them, again with the nose oil from my face. The nose oil just worked perfectly, so I just wanted to mention that.
 

Nitai108

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
38
Format
Medium Format
The oil from the surface of one's nose. Pretty much any part of one's face is good when it's greasy...

I don't think that's such a good idea, at least I wouldn't do it, anyway my face is oil free, so I don't run that risk.
 

trexx

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
291
Location
Tucson
Format
4x5 Format
It has been a tried and true method, probably since there has been film. Safe particularly if being done on the non-emulation sid of the filem. it can be rinsed off.
 
OP
OP
mooseontheloose

mooseontheloose

Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,110
Location
Kyoto, Japan
Format
Multi Format
Thanks everyone. I had a feeling it was probably the camera, even though I was hoping it wasn't. I've got 8 rolls of HIE waiting to be developed -- I'm afraid to see what will be on those negs! Another reason why you should develop your negs as soon as possible, although in my case it's been hard to do anything photographic, having moved three times in 5 months. Now I have a bit of time to play catch up, and everything's been going great except for this!

I've used Edwal NoScratch in the past, but, like many others, find it messy to use. And it wouldn't be for one or two negs, but for many. Besides, there's nowhere here in Kamloops where I could buy it anyway (another trip to Vancouver perhaps?) I'll have to try the nose oil trick perhaps, though I think that'll have to be a make-up free day as well (not something you guys have to consider I guess).
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
rub the finger behind the ear, the oil there is
a better grade than nose oil. swirl lightly on the non emulsion
side of the film, it will defract/ scatter the light and make
scratches invisible.
i dropped a 5x7 full frame formal portrait of our state's governor
(before he was indicted and later sent to jail :wink: )
the film dropped out of my hand and landed on a cement darkroom floor.
after picking it up and blowing off all the dirt, it had a lot of "micro scratches"
after "masking" the scratches and made lots of enlargements ..
they were scratch free.

as my mentor would say " never from the nose, always behind the ear! "

YMMV
 

Martin Aislabie

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
1,413
Location
Stratford-up
Format
4x5 Format
I would take a good look at your pressure plate. There is likely something on it causing the scratches.

Totaly agree

I am amazed how much "stuff" accumulated inside my cameras

No idea how it gets in there but it manages somehow and the film pressure plate is often overlooked when you give the camera a quick blow out with compressed air

Martin
 

Kycoo

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
20
Location
California
Format
35mm
I had the same problems with scans from my Nikon Coolscan V (always horizontal). These scratches don't show when using an enlarger so I didn't even know they were there.

In my case, the problem was with the PrintFile negative holders. So, if I need to scan, the negatives go from the reel to in-between plastic sheets that I put between pages of a large book for flattening. A couple of days later, I scan the negatives. After scanning, that is the first time the negatives go into the PrintFile. No more scratches. The best solution, however, is to forget about scanning altogether except for web postings.
 

Bob Carnie

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
7,735
Location
toronto
Format
Med. Format RF
I do not think these are camera scratches

If they were the marks scratched into the emulsion from the camera the scratches would black and much sharper / defined

I think these are photo flow scum deposits from when the film was hung to dry or some other deposit which is a plus density on the film which would then show up as white on a positive image.

only my 2cents
Thanks everyone. I had a feeling it was probably the camera, even though I was hoping it wasn't. I've got 8 rolls of HIE waiting to be developed -- I'm afraid to see what will be on those negs! Another reason why you should develop your negs as soon as possible, although in my case it's been hard to do anything photographic, having moved three times in 5 months. Now I have a bit of time to play catch up, and everything's been going great except for this!

I've used Edwal NoScratch in the past, but, like many others, find it messy to use. And it wouldn't be for one or two negs, but for many. Besides, there's nowhere here in Kamloops where I could buy it anyway (another trip to Vancouver perhaps?) I'll have to try the nose oil trick perhaps, though I think that'll have to be a make-up free day as well (not something you guys have to consider I guess).
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom