Scratched film

Vonder · Apr 4, 2017

I lament that my EOS-1V is consistently scratching my negatives. Darned if I can find the cause. The film plane is smooth to the touch everywhere. Anyone out there ever solve a film-scratcher? Seems like several cameras of mine do it, with nary a visible cause.

Just to rule some things out - the film is new, factory fresh film, brand isn't an issue. I see the scratches on the film right after developing, so it isn't my scanner. I don't need general advice - looking more to hear from someone who had a similar situation and eventually had a "Eureka!" moment that solved your problem.

MattKing · Apr 4, 2017

Which side is getting scratched - the emulsion, or the substrate?

Les Sarile · Apr 4, 2017

If it's the camera I would expect the scratch to be consistently in the same place. Is it?

Also, are you evaluating the scratches optically instead of scanner results?

hashtagquack · Apr 4, 2017

One remark stands out here.

"Seems like several cameras of mine do it, with nary a visible cause."

I've shot many cameras of varying ages and never had any cause scratches to film. I have had C41 film return from the lab with scratches... With that in mind and that multiple cameras are causing similar scratches, is there something in the process that could be causing this eg, Squeegee or using fingers to remove excess water while drying?

Sorry I'm aware you didn't want general advice but just hoping you ruled out this possibility before searching for a non existent issue with the camera

railwayman3 · Apr 4, 2017

Probably not of relevence in this case, but some years ago I had an Exa camera (1960-ish), from my late Father, which produced horrendous scratches with every film . Everything seemed smooth, pressure pad, film path, no probs with any film cassette, no apparent reason. Took it to a repairer, who swapped the pressure plate for another which he had in stock.....to my amazement it cured the problem. The repairer was somewhat puzzled too (!), unlikely as it seemed, we could only put it down to too strong springs in the original pressure plate, or the original plate somehow being incorrectly seated in position.

pentaxuser · Apr 4, 2017

The scratches are seen right after development. Could it be something in the development process rather than the camera. If it is affecting more than one camera as stated then it seems strange that each camera scratches the film. The one common factor may be the equipment used in the processing.

Just a thought

pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch · Apr 4, 2017

While it's possible for one camera to cause scratches, the chances of multiple cameras doing it stretches credulity. I would seek the cause somewhere else. For example, do you use a sponge, chamois or squeegee before drying the film?

Vonder · Apr 4, 2017

Thanks for all the replies! Well, it's not ALL my cameras, just to be clear, but at least two are notorious for it, with the EOS-1V being the most-used. Like this weekend, developed two rolls of HP5+, one from a Minolta Hi-matic 7S and the other the EOS-1V. The 1V had scratches, not any at all on the roll from the Hi-matic. So I'm left with the camera. Today, if I remember too, I'm going to use my kids. They are young and likely have a finer sense of touch. I'll have them run over the pressure plate and see if they can locate a bur or something. Darned if I can.

The scratches don't appear on every frame. Its intermittent. But when they do show up it's usually near the bottom of the image (top of the frame in-camera) and they are straight, very faint lines all the way along the film. I'll check tonight but I'm like 99% sure it's the non-emulsion side of the film that's getting scratched.

Vonder · Apr 4, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
While it's possible for one camera to cause scratches, the chances of multiple cameras doing it stretches credulity. I would seek the cause somewhere else. For example, do you use a sponge, chamois or squeegee before drying the film?

Nope, drip dry. My other guilty-est camera is a Minolta XE-5. That one has bedeviled me. I even sanded and repainted the pressure plate in desperation. No luck.

Vonder · Apr 4, 2017

Here's an example shot. Hope you can see the line at the bottom.

shutterfinger · Apr 4, 2017

Do you remove the film from the cassette for loading for development or do you pull it out through the film slot in the cassette?
Do any of the cameras have transport rollers in the back? If yes do they turn smoothly with the weight of a very small down feather applied?
Are there any burnished areas in the film path, body or back? You may need to use your loupe to see them.

MattKing · Apr 4, 2017

Do you wear rings when you load film reels?
What reels do you use?

pentaxuser · Apr 4, 2017

The only line I can see and it is faint is one running under but slightly cutting through the bottom of the figures 4 and what looks like a drunken "s" or maybe a 2. Is that the line? I presume the 4 2' 17 is the date it was taken which imprints on the negative?

pentaxuser

Harry Stevens · Apr 4, 2017

Scratches.....These are scratches.
.
This is what happens when you try crazy ideas with a Rolleicord .............So embarrassing

Sirius Glass · Apr 4, 2017

Since the scratches are in film from several cameras, the problem is with the film handling and processing. Do not use squeegees or fingers to get the water off the film; use PhotoFlo and follow the dilution instructs exactly, do not just estimate.

Craig75 · Apr 5, 2017

How annoying. Thats a lovely photo of your dog to have scratched

shutterfinger · Apr 5, 2017

Another trick to find where the scratches are comming from is to gently pull a nylon stocking or piece of one across the film path. It will snag on any rough spot or burr.
I have never needed to use it so I don't know how well it works.

MattKing · Apr 5, 2017

shutterfinger said:
Another trick to find where the scratches are comming from is to gently pull a nylon stocking or piece of one across the film path. It will snag on any rough spot or burr.
I have never needed to use it so I don't know how well it works.

And clearly, APUG is a place where you will find people who might have nylon stockings

winger · Apr 5, 2017

MattKing said:
And clearly, APUG is a place where you will find people who might have nylon stockings

I have one stretched across an embroidery hoop to try as a diffuser in the darkroom. And I'm one of the minority who would theoretically wear them.

Sirius Glass · Apr 5, 2017

MattKing said:
And clearly, APUG is a place where you will find people who might have nylon stockings

winger said:
I have one stretched across an embroidery hoop to try as a diffuser in the darkroom. And I'm one of the minority who would theoretically wear them.

Then there are those that wear nylon stockings, but might not want to reveal that now or in a public forum.

Michael Guzzi · Apr 5, 2017

shutterfinger said:
Another trick to find where the scratches are comming from is to gently pull a nylon stocking or piece of one across the film path. It will snag on any rough spot or burr.
I have never needed to use it so I don't know how well it works.

A chunk of cotton might work for this too. That's how my brother checked paper cutting blades after sharpening, if the smallest burr or dent was still there some of the cotton would be left there.

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 5, 2017

Do you bulk load your film. Sometimes if you use the same cartridge, grit in the felt trap can cause scratches in the same spot of your film. You can also gently blow air into the film chamber to see if the issue will go away.

Robin Guymer · Apr 9, 2017

I have also had this problem with a number of different cameras and intermittent across the negative frames. To try and fix this I cleaned the cameras thoroughly before loading film. I develop in Caffenol C-L and do not squeege, but shake the water off before hanging from hooks horizontally on a modified bike wheel which hangs from my camera room ceiling. I just could not see how I could be causing the scratches. I then read that dust can lodge in the film canister felt and as you rewind this can scratch a straight line in the film.

However my last roll of film had a dead straight line from frame 3 to the very end pretty much ruining all the shots. The line was on the outside of the film, not on the emulsion side. A thought came to mind to crack open the canister and check the tag of film remaining there. ( I cut off the end bit of film after threading it onto a Patterson reel in the bag). Now this tag has not left the canister so it's not been in the camera, or been developed, or been exposed till now. And there it was, the scratch had gone all the way in and I could see it without a magnifier lens. So it was on the film before it went into my camera. I then cracked open about 6 more canisters and found faint lines on 2 of them.

It's probably fairly rare that this is the problem and more likely to be the intermittent dust scratch lines, but if you've discounted all possibilities then check the film left in the canister.

Just to throw another curve ball into this thread, I have another theory on those lines that are on the outside of the film. I load my Patterson reel by pulling down on the canister, winding up till the canister reaches the reel and repeat the process. Now this means the film in the canister is not under load and hence springs outwards so putting the outside of the film up against the inside of the canister. Do you think the unsprung film has potential to be scratched by any imperfections inside the canister wall using this method? Do you think a better method is after starting the film on the Patterson reel, to then crack open the canister and remove the roll of film first, before then winding onto the reel, so eliminating any chance of scratch lines from dodgy canister internal faces?

The scratch line on this negative is 20mm down from the top.

Scratched film

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