scratch-free Efke PL100/25: a futile exercise?

[Markus Albertz]

Good day,

I am just posting my recent experience for those interested in developing scratch-free Efke 8x10 PL100/25 sheet film using trays. Well, I came to the conclusion that this is just impossible.

Prior to scratching my latest set of negatives, I carefully tested my method the night before using 1 unexposed sheet of Berger 100 and 1 sheet Efke PL100, both 8x10 (i.e., 1 hard and one soft emulsion, respectively). I just shuffled them around in plain water, emulsion side up, emulsion side down, suffled in different directions, always careful to avoid having the corners of the upper sheet sliding along the bottom sheet. Not a single scratch and I gained confidence that this would work with more than 2 sheets. Then last night, I developed 5 sheets of Efke PL100 taking utmost care when lifting sheets from the bottom, pulling them out and putting them back in the tray. All turned out scratched, some quite heavily even on the base side. So, something appears to be fundamentally different when I use more than 2 sheets at a time. But I just cannot figure out what this might be.

Of course I understand, that the full processing cycle involves more shuffling than just a plain water tray but I would expect to have seen at least a few scratches after my test.

So, I am ready to give up tray-developing at least for multiple sheets of Efke PL and going back to single sheet developing (which takes forever) or implementing an alternative method, such as a developing tank.

Quite honestly, I find it hard to believe that some folks who posted here and in other forums before managed to produce virtually-scratch Efke sheet film. So, those lucky ones of you who appear to be more successful, please shed some more light on your technique.

Best,

Markus

 

[Markus Albertz]

sorry it should have been "virtually scratch-free" in the last paragraph

 

[lee]

Markus,

I get a lot of scratches too with Efke and tray processing. I moved my work to a unicolor drum and a motor base. I cannot do more than one sheet at a time but it is scratch free. Try it.


lee\c

 

[P C Headland]

I do my Efke 25 (9x12cm) in my Gepe 120 tank, either one at a time (bent, emulsion side in), or multiple sheets using a rubber band around each sheet (emulsion side in, "taco method").

I've not had any problems with scratches using this method, plus I can do the whole process (apart from loading of course) in the light.

You could try something similar, or BTZ (?) tubes.

 

[avandesande]

How do you put it back in the tray? I would hold it with one hand and push it under water in the middle.

 

[John Cook]

While I have processed a lot of multiple sheets in trays, it has been years since my last tray run, and I have never shot Efke. So the following are only guesses.

First, I have always required lots of room to do this successfully. I used a tray one size larger than the film format. In addition, it was always the deep model intended for hypo. Lots of developer. Then there was room to lift the pile of sheets off from the bottom sheet before pulling it out. No sliding!

Second, the scratches on the film base could be the result of something rough on the tray bottom?

Lastly, wet time and temperature affect emulsion softness. Are you pre-wetting in addition to the development time? (I wouldn't)

How cool are your solutions?

Are you sure the scratches are occurring in the developer tray?

 

[fschifano]

I hear you. The few attempts I've made at tray processing always resulted in at least some scratches to my film. That's it, no more. Got myself an HP Combi-Plan tank good for 6 sheets at a time. No more scratches and you can work in room light. No problems with uneven development either so long as you use a relatively slow working developer. Shoot for at least a 10 minute development time and you'll be fine.

 

[juan]

I gave up on multiple sheet developing of PL100 - I usually do single sheet brush development - no scratches. I sometimes do minimal agitation development in tubes - again, no scratches.
juan

 

[Photo Engineer]

Many of the Eastern European films, or those made by the second tier of film manufacturers use older hardeners or lower hardener levels than used by Kodak, Fuji, Ilford and Agfa. Therefore, the emulsions are more tender and the film tends to scratch and curl more.

Using a pre-hardener before development will often help if the film is soft and scratches take place. Here is a good pre-treatment formula that should help.

1. Pre harden for 1 - 2 mins at 68 deg F (20 deg C)

formalin (37%) 10 ml/liter
Sodium Sulfate 100 g/liter That is SULFATE not SULFITE
Sodium Carbonate 50 g/liter (anhydrous)

Start with 800 ml of water and add the above, then dilute to 1 liter. This will keep for about 1 month and will treat lots of film.

2. Rinse 1 - 2 minutes at 68 deg F (20 deg C)

3. Process as normal.

You may have to adjust development time, as the film will be considerably harder, and so may require longer development times. If the film is not hard enough, you may extend the hardener time out to as much as 5 minutes, but you must then wash longer before you develop the film.

PE

 

[noseoil]

Tubes from J&C Photo for 8x10. tim

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The idea of a pre-hardener is interesting, since I pre-soak these films anyway. Artcraft and the Formulary don't list formalin in their catalogues, but I can't imagine it's too hard to find. It's used as a preservative for biological specimens, isn't it?

I find that even when I get "scratch-free" results with these films--meaning no obvious scratches--there are fine abrasions that can be seen with a loupe, which won't show up on a contact print, but might be visible on an enlargement.

 

[Donald Miller]

I have given up on tray development of Efke PL 100. Single sheet brush development is one option that worked for me...but I just hate to do single sheets.

I have even had instances of emulsion damage with vigorous agitation in tubes in the past.

I have had no problems since I switched to minimal agitation using tubes.

 

[Donald Miller]

The idea of a pre-hardener is interesting, since I pre-soak these films anyway. Artcraft and the Formulary don't list formalin in their catalogues, but I can't imagine it's too hard to find. It's used as a preservative for biological specimens, isn't it?

I find that even when I get "scratch-free" results with these films--meaning no obvious scratches--there are fine abrasions that can be seen with a loupe, which won't show up on a contact print, but might be visible on an enlargement.

I have bought Alum from Formulary before. That is what is used in F6.

 

[Gerald Koch]

You can harden the film by using a 3% solution of potassium chrome alum (Kodak SB-3). Allow the film to remain in the hardening stopbath for 5 minutes agitating initially for 30 seconds and then every minute. Chrome alum gives a much greater degree of hardening than ordinary alum. After the stopbath continue with your regular fixing schedule. Chrome alum was quite popular years ago when all films were delicate. The stopbath does not keep and should be made up fresh.

 

[lee]

I used to get Chrome alum from the E-3 Ektachrome kits after they switched to E-4. It was the pre-hardener if I remember correctly

lee\c

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Brush processing PL100 gives me scratch free results. It is more time consuming to do one sheet at a time but considering the time, effort and expense I take to put the image onto this sheet of film, it is non-issue to spend 10 minutes processing it. Try it. Brush processing gives scratch free results AND no mottling to boot!

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

As I have mentioned previously, I process a lot of Efke PL 100 sheet film and I don't have scratched or otherwise damaged negatives. I use a tanning and staining developer (Pyrocat-HD). I use a non-hardening fixer.

I process in slosher trays and in tubes (depending on the number of sheets I need to process). I see no difference between the two processing methods.

Note: I perform all of the processing steps in the slosher tray (or tube). I only remove the film when it is ready to dry.

I can understand that it would be easy to damage a soft emulsion film like Efke Pl 100 in a standard tray, so I don't process that way.

If I was going to process Efke Pl 100 at elevated temperatures (above 75F) I would consider pre-hardening the emulsion with either a Potassium Alum or a Formaldehyde hardener (but only after some careful testing).

I also shoot Efke PL 25 and all of my above statements apply to that flm as well.

 

[Markus Albertz]

I guess I should have mentioned that I develop my film in ABC pryo and that I do not really want to give up DBI because quite a few of my exposures are long and hence 'best guesses'. I am also a creature of habit, and so I have a natural resistance to switching methods if what works perfectly for Ilford or Berger sheet film seems to be completely inadequate for Efke.

So it seems as if my options are the following:

(1) single sheets in tray, agitation
(2) single sheets in tray, brush method
(3) single sheets in tubes, but can process multiple tubes at a time
(4) multiple sheets in slosh tray (does this work well with DBI, though?)
(5) multiple sheets in tanks
(6) forget Efke...

Hmm... quite a few actually... Well, I know that (1) works perfectly for Efke but it is very time-consuming and I really want to spend less time processing film.

Anyway, what I was refering to in my previous email are those folks out there who appear to have success with tray-processing of multiple sheets of Efke, and I don't mean in a slosh tray, where 4 sheets are arranged next to each other, but the normal way where you shuffle the sheets vertically.

Thanks for your responses. Perhaps I'll try the brush method sometime just to something different than rocking the tray around...

Best,

Markus

 

[David]

When I first tried developing multiple negs in a tray I gave up for a while and returned to single sheet developing. When this became untenable because of the time it took I retried and succeeded with shuffling. I use mostly PL100 but also PL25 in 11x14 and 8x20. Last week when really pushed for time I developed 13 negs (11x14) at once and managed not to scratch any.

For me the keys are:
paying attention to the process,
pre-soaking in water for around 3 minutes,
develop emulsion side up,
place the stack in the close (lower) left corner of the tray as I face it,
lift the far-right corner of the stack
pull the bottom sheet out,
releasing the stack,
hold the near-left corner of the sheet and also the top right corner and move it toward me
bump it against the left-rear of the tray being careful to hold it above the stack,
when the sheet is in position release the sheet first at the back and then the front move on to the next one sheet waiting just long enough for the sheet to settle
I find it important to mostly keep the stack in a neat pile as it never, ever sorks if they are scattered in the tray.

When it's time to move to the next tray I pick the stack up all at once hold them for a moment while they drip (except when some negs require more time (inspection development)) in which case I put the finished ones in the near-left corner of the stopping tray.

I also use Pyrocat HD

 

[Peter Schrager]

Scratches

Tom+David are on to something here. While I would love to be able to individualy
develop sheet film it's near impossible because I take alot of Photographs.
I do tray; Pyrocat;and shuffle baby....guess what: no scratches.(pl100 here) Do no more than four at a time. Pretend you're going to make it to Broadway: PRACTICE!
Peter

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, the idea of a hardener stop is interesting, but far too late in the process to do any good. The scratches take place during development. To eliminate the problem, you need a prehardener or a complete change of technique.

Formalin (37%) is available from a number of photo chemical suppliers.

The alternatives are to use the divided sheet film tray (such as sold by the Formulary) or to use drums such as the Jobo 2000 and 3000 series drums. I use these two methods, as I always got scratches from interleaved agitation in trays when processing more than 2 sheets. I have not done tray processing for years for this very reason. Why take a chance even if I know how to avoid the problem, it isn't worth it.

I do have all of the ingredients to make this prehardener, and I keep some handy for any emergency. For example, using this prehardener, you can process film at quite high temperatures.

PE

 

[David]

What kind of scratches do you get Markus: gouges where the corner of a sheet digs at another, fine micro-scratches or what? I experience that careful technique can eliminate most all of the problems. If I slip and drop a sheet just wrong it does damage or if I lose concentration (not being careful) problems can occur too. Otherwise it works. I also check the tray before using it to make sure there isn't anything like grit in the tray.

 

[Peter Schrager]

tray

Tray should also have grooves running on the bottom so you can get up under the negatives. I'm with David on this. PL100 can be done without scratches in a tray
Peter

 

[scootermm]

I process in a tray. one neg at a time... using an 8" hake brush. never worry about scratching anymore.

 

[Peter Schrager]

brush

Matt-is that brush 8 inches wide? Is the negative in the tray with no developer
and then you brush? Or is it put in a tray full of liquid and you brush?
Peter