Schneider Kreuznach Angulon in "Aperture Housing"

I recently got hold of a Schneider Kreuznach 120mm f/6.8 Angulon. The lens does not sit in a shutter, but rather some type of hosing with aperture control. I have never come across something like this, but I also must admit that I have very little experience with LF lenses. Could someone shine some light on what exactly this is, and how I can safely remove the lens from the housing to install it in a shutter?

I've never seen that before. It looks like it has been adapted to fit a camera - but with no shutter control?

It's just mounted in barrel. I'd send it to a machinist like SKG to mount it in barrel as it is probably not a direct fit to a modern shutter.

M39 threads for an LTM Barnack or perhaps M42 for a Pentax, Contax S or Pentacon??

I've got one like that marked Wirgin Weisbaden Gewironar. It's a 75mm F3.5, so obviously intended for a medium format 6x6 or 4.5x6. The thread in the back measures 1.185", which is right at 30mm. I assume it was made for a focal plane shutter camera.

The optical blocks should unscrew and go straight into a Copal/ Compur #1 shutter. The mount threads are the same as a Compur/ Copal #1. It's a standard factory barrel mount, same as contemporary Componons etc. If you're using a Sinar or Packard shutter, the barrel mount is fine.

They were sold like that as well as in shutters, mine is in an Ibsor shutter (with flash sync), it's a WA lens for a 7x5/13x18 camera. It may well be the shortest FL you could use on a 5x4 SLR like a Mentor.

As Lachlan says it'll fit any European or Japanese #1 shutter, Prontor, Ibsor, Compur, Seiko, Copal etc. It dates from 1954 there were cameras with Focal plane shutters, or optional Focal plane shutters that could be fitted, not sure if Linhof made one but MPP did for their MicroTechnical 5x4 cameras, and I have a couple for wood and brass cameras.

Ian

Lachlan Young said:

The optical blocks should unscrew and go straight into a Copal/ Compur #1 shutter. The mount threads are the same as a Compur/ Copal #1. It's a standard factory barrel mount, same as contemporary Componons etc. If you're using a Sinar or Packard shutter, the barrel mount is fine.

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I tried to unscrew the optics, without any luck. The rear element is removable, but beyond that I can't seem to get any further.

Lachlan Young said:

The optical blocks should unscrew and go straight into a Copal/ Compur #1 shutter. The mount threads are the same as a Compur/ Copal #1. It's a standard factory barrel mount, same as contemporary Componons etc. If you're using a Sinar or Packard shutter, the barrel mount is fine.

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+1

kahlheins said:

I tried to unscrew the optics, without any luck. The rear element is removable, but beyond that I can't seem to get any further.

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Why I send mine to SKG. He recently mounted a 305 G-Claron that I could not get the front cell off onto a Compur 2 shutter and made the aperture scale for the shutter.

Ian Grant said:

They were sold like that as well as in shutters, mine is in an Ibsor shutter (with flash sync), it's a WA lens for a 7x5/13x18 camera. It may well be the shortest FL you could use on a 5x4 SLR like a Mentor.

As Lachlan says it'll fit any European or Japanese #1 shutter, Prontor, Ibsor, Compur, Seiko, Copal etc. It dates from 1954 there were cameras with Focal plane shutters, or optional Focal plane shutters that could be fitted, not sure if Linhof made one but MPP did for their MicroTechnical 5x4 cameras, and I have a couple for wood and brass cameras.

Ian

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Linhof did make an FP shutter for the Technika as far as I know - I think it did 1/30-1/1000 + B or something like that.

I think the first Schneider lenses without barrel options were the Super Angulons (apart from the Sinar variants) as their lens blocks won't fit the throat of the aperture units.

I quite like the barrel designs - if anyone wants to dispose of a 165 or 210 Angulon or a Xenotar in a barrel mount...

I have one of those exactly (factory barrel mount) and put it in a recessed Durst recessed cup, then onto a Plaubel Peco Jr flat board. Then onto my Plaubel Makiflex

The lens does not sit in a shutter, but rather some type of hosing with aperture control.

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Not sure the German translation but in English they call it a 'barrel.'

makiflex #6 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This lens is a Dagor design, the f6.8 aperture is a quick give-away. I have Angulons (all of them in barrel and shutter) from the 65mm to the 210mm. Quite sharp in the center and many like how it rolls off at the edges. I really enjoy using my Angulons, they are generally underrated. In barrel mount they can be rather inexpensive.

Exposure above 120mm f6.8 Angulon monted on a Plaubel Makiflex focal plane SLR camera.

@kahlheins : I trust Dan Fromm for his knowledge, but my first thought was that your lens is a enlarger lens, or a process lens.
I have a Componon 135 (I think) of exactly the same type.

Raphael said:

@kahlheins : I trust Dan Fromm for his knowledge, but my first thought was that your lens is a enlarger lens, or a process lens.
I have a Componon 135 (I think) of exactly the same type.

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Thanks for the kind words.

The OP's Angulon is a taking lens, not an enlarging lens. As was pointed out in post #13 above -- thanks for posting it, ic -- Schneider offered jes' plain Angulons in barrel as well as in shutter.

They also offered enlarging lenses in barrel and in shutter. I have several Comparons in Copal Press #0 shutters, once bought one of them in a cock-and-shoot Copal #0. Yes, I bought them for the shutters.

When I was building my2x3 kit I paid attention to listings on eBay for enlarging lenses. Every once in a while an ignorant seller would offer a Symmar in barrel as an enlarging lens. Xenars, too. Some were extremely good buys.

Ignorant sellers offer all sorts of lenses in barrel as process lenses. Process lenses intended for photoengraving and such are slower than nearly all post-WW II taking lenses. The fastest are probably Boyer's Emeraudes, rebadged Beryls (Dagor clones) and all f/6.8. Typical process lenses are f/8 or f/10 or, in longer focal lengths, slower still. Some, e.g., Boyer Apo-Saphirs, Goerz Apo-Artars, Schneider G-Clarons and Rodenstock Apo-Ronars were delivered in shutter as well as in barrel. Ain't no f/5.6 or faster process lenses.

Well, thank you for all the helpful answers. I think I'll leave it aside for the moment, since re-fitting it with a shutter is not worth it for me at the moment. Maybe I'll dig it out again for some later DIY project or if I ever obtain a large format camera with focal plane shutter.

Ian Grant said:

They were sold like that as well as in shutters, mine is in an Ibsor shutter (with flash sync), it's a WA lens for a 7x5/13x18 camera. It may well be the shortest FL you could use on a 5x4 SLR like a Mentor.

As Lachlan says it'll fit any European or Japanese #1 shutter, Prontor, Ibsor, Compur, Seiko, Copal etc. It dates from 1954 there were cameras with Focal plane shutters, or optional Focal plane shutters that could be fitted, not sure if Linhof made one but MPP did for their MicroTechnical 5x4 cameras, and I have a couple for wood and brass cameras.

Ian

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Linhof made one but not for long and they are not common.

kahlheins said:

Well, thank you for all the helpful answers. I think I'll leave it aside for the moment, since re-fitting it with a shutter is not worth it for me at the moment. Maybe I'll dig it out again for some later DIY project or if I ever obtain a large format camera with focal plane shutter.

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Keep searching Ebay, I bought a mint #1 Ibsor shutter last year for around £30 (34 euros) never been used on a camera with a blank aperture scale). The Ibsor shutter is very similar to the early Prontors (press type), at first glance they look identical both made by Gauthier (AGC). I see quite a few shutters listed by German sellers so know they are out there.

Ian

Lachlan Young said:

Linhof did make an FP shutter for the Technika as far as I know - I think it did 1/30-1/1000 + B or something like that.

I think the first Schneider lenses without barrel options were the Super Angulons (apart from the Sinar variants) as their lens blocks won't fit the throat of the aperture units.

I quite like the barrel designs - if anyone wants to dispose of a 165 or 210 Angulon or a Xenotar in a barrel mount...

Click to expand...

Bob S said:

Linhof made one but not for long and they are not common.

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Thanks, I think I've seen a Linhof FP shutter in a 1950's brochure. Many of us are too young to remember that after WWII there was a dearth of good quality cameras in Europe, German companies were rebuilding and many countries like the UK had severe import restrictions until into the 1950's. HS Newcombe a London camera dealer who wrote the Miniature Camera Manual also contributed to the BJP and other magazines. In 1950 he's commenting about the lack of high quality new cameras, they needed a special import licence to enter the UK market.

The Compur factory had been very badly damaged while AGC (Prontor) had remained largely unscathed so you see far more cameras with Prontor shutters in the initial period after WWII into the early 1950's.

Here in the UK there were some short lived attempts to produce LF cameras by companies like Dawe Instruments, and Mason who made the Trixale, it would have been the same in Germany. There second hand market however was predominant according to Newcombe and things were just beginning to really change when this Angulon was made.

Here in Europe there were other new shutter options in the 1950's TP roller blind shutters were still available, Thomas S Day made shutters like the Oblox a 6 speed synchro, then there were the single speed Gitzo, Luc, Agilux, the add on FP backs, then of course there's the US Packard the least desirable of them all

Ian