Schneider and Rodenstock EL quality brand names

[jjphoto]

Hundreds of years of EL lens? Released first in the 1960s was the first of the EL Nikkor lenses.

ELs are short for 'enlarging lenses' and it's an abbreviation that is used regularly, in this forum and elsewhere. This has already been discussed in this thread. 'EL-Nikkor' is a brand of Nikon enlarging lenses.

Enlarging Lenses (ELs) started to be designed specifically for the purpose of enlarging films and plates in around the 1920s. As we are in 2020, that's 'a period of about 100 years' (my comment) since the earliest ELs, not (plural) 'hundreds' of years which you have stated. Before that time it was very common to use the taking lens itself to enlarge films/plates but this became problematic as films got smaller because the image had to be enlarged further.

 

[jjphoto]

jj - You're obviously totally ignorant of the practical facts involved. Trying to convince someone like me, who has actually used these lenses year-in /year-out for various critical applications, isn't going to be swayed by your sheer guesswork generic assumptions. All the big pro labs around here used Apo Nikkors for mural-sized printing. I use them not only for more precise results than ANY official enlarging lens can achieve (and I have some of the best of those too), but also for very critical color dupe and interneg work. The technically best tele-photographer I've even known routinely uses some of the same lenses at INFINITY. They've frequently been adapted by view camera photographers for general usage all the way for macro to infinity, but are a bit bulky in my opinion, especially if fitted in shutter, but otherwise optically superb over that whole range.
What you don't seem to understand is that factory specifications for these kinds of lenses are based upon printing conventions and extremely accurate apo dot reproduction standards far in excess of ordinary photographic needs. But just study up on how these lenses get re-purposed. Not long ago, remaining Apo El Nikkors were highly coveted for large expensive scanning-back cameras used for reproduction of paintings and related art forensic purposes. Some people still use them on conventional enlarging system, though it takes a very well built enlarger to support their extra weight. The shortest Apo El Nikkor is a 105, and the shortest Apo Nikkor 180, so pretty much off the radar of typical 35mm photographers.
But it works both ways. Cheapo student-grade 3-element enlarging lenses tend to be just rebranded cheapo stat camera lenses like those once used in T-shirt silkscreening shops and for other casual graphics applications.

The performance and utility of a process lens is completely irrelevant. It makes no sense to argue that a 'symmetrical' process lens having four elements somehow supports your argument about "...the myth that less elements necessarily equates to lower performance...". Remember that the entire context here is enlarging lenses, not (symmetrical) process lenses and that your suggestion is simply misleading without further explanation.

 

[DonW]

Wow this thread has taken a severe left turn!!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Process lenses DO count as enlarging lenses, because these are precisely what many high-end enlargements are made with, and have been made with, in one fashion or another, for a long time. And many of these lenses were designed for more than one application to begin with. It's not my fault if some people are apparently unaware of that cross-marketing fact. Print shop suppliers sold apo lenses for process camera use, while certain pro photo houses sold the VERY SAME lenses to the big photo labs for enlarger applications. The irony is that, in certain focal lengths, one can now find extremely good used process lenses at very reasonable prices compared to what they once sold for, and which excel at enlarging, even better than ordinary enlarging lenses.
Rodagon G's are specialty lenses made for high magnification - very big enlargements, not for general use. Like I already mentioned, certain Apo Nikkor have also been used for that same purpose. For medium format negs, I really like Apo Rodagon N lenses. I have both a 105 and 150. The 150 also works for 4x5 of course, though I often use a 180 regular Rodagon instead. My Apo Nikkors run from 240 to 760mm, though I never use the longest ones; they simply came with the set I cannibalized from a huge process camera (22 ft long).
But I have uses for certain regular El Nikkors too. For example, their cheapo 75/f4 version is a lousy MF lens, but works wonderfully for 35mm. The 360/5.6 is nice and bright for composing and focussing color neg film with that darn orange mask, but a draft-horse sized lens, and not quite as critically sharp in the corners as an Apo Nikkor. But since even a 30X40 inch print is only a 4X linear magnification from 8x10 film, there is almost no visible difference in the resultant print itself.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Where does Rodagon WA fit in there? I was told the WA 135 was an APO, but they are not labeled as such. I guess the Rodagon-G's are at the top of the heap - but are the G's APO?

Mike

I have this same lens and while it does a "bang-up" job I don't know if I would call it an APO lens since I have never done any color work with it. For B&W enlargements it's fine, but really can't say it's better than my Componon-S. It does allow larger enlargements with less enlarger head height and that's what it was made for. JohnW.

 

[whojammyflip]

There are Vivitar VHE enlarging lenses, probably made by Schneider. The lens cap on my VHE 50/3.5 is the same as on my APO Componon 45mm (mottled plastic with a ring around the edge). The APO Componon is sharp wide open, whereas the Vivitar is mushy. You can see this effect through the grain focuser.

I've just enlarged a crop of a Delta 100 negative to 12x with the APO Componon, wide open, and the resolution is incredible. AN glass carrier was used, as well as the LPL fine focus adjustment knob. The Vivitar is perfectly fine at f8.