Scanning problems and scanner choices

[cooltouch]

I've been "getting by" with my 5yo Epson 3170, scanning slides and negs, both 35mm and medium format. But I've decided that it has become a waste of time due to a rainbow-colored stripe that has become increasingly more predominant in the images. I dismantled the scanner today, hoping to find perhaps a spec of dust or something on a mirror or on one of the light elements. The light elements were clean, but I noticed a very tiny bubble-looking speck on a bottom mirror inside the moving box. And it was positioned right about where the stripe was occurring. It took some scrubbing with a q-tip and alcohol, and then I had to clean up the residue from that process before the mirror was truly spotless. Thought I had found the problem.

Wrong. The rainbow stripe is still there on my scans, so I'm thinking of relegating this scanner to B&W only duty, or selling it, and replacing it with something that works better.

I don't have a lot of money to spend. $200 tops. I've been researching new and used scanners and have narrowed it down to a few. I would =like= to buy a scanner that will handle 4x5 large format. I don't own a LF camera right now, but i plan to get one someday soon. Or maybe even build one. But given my budgetary restrictions, I've decided to consider those scanners that will do only 35mm and medium format. Anyway, the scanners that are on my short list are:

Epson 4490
Epson 4870
Epson 4990

Canon 5600F
Canon 8600F
Canon 8800F
Canon 9900F
Canon 9950F

I have a possible line on an Epson 4870 Pro locally and I see that eBay has a selection at the moment on Epson 4490s, and Canon 8600f and 8800f models.

I guess what I'm looking for is perspective. I have no experience with any of these scanners. I've heard both good and bad things about Epson's ICE technology, but have heard nothing either way about the software Canon bundles with its scanners. However, if it works as well as the software that came bundled with my Canon DSLR, which I use for post processing with great results, then it is good stuff.

So, if you have a bit of perspective on any of the above mentioned scanners, I'd really appreciate reading what you think.

To be honest, I'm really interested in the Epson 4870 Pro that may still be available locally. Waiting for a call-back from the guy. If he still has it, I'll likely spring for it, and hope for the best.

Best,

Michael

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I think quite highly of the 4870 and 4990 (I also have a 3200, but the 4870 is good). They also handle 6x12 sized 120 and 4x5. Personally I'd go for these two over the smaller scan area epson. Used prices make the cost insignificant. Ive only bought one of my Epsons new.

I think that well handled the 4990 will go close to what a Nikon LS-IV can do. Of course if you get focus and flatness just right on the Nikon you'll get slightly better pixels, which might help on enlargement right on the edge of what can be pulled off 35mm. However for 6x6 and 6x7 and 6x9 you'll need to spend a lot more to gain that little bit extra (NB you'll need a Nikon 8000 or 9000). A worthwhile read on the benefits of pushing the edges of 35mm (or diminishing returns depending on your thinking) is here.


Happy to discuss things if you like ... PM me for contact details.

Mean time if you feel like some reading

colour profile assignment (the benefits)

noise and adjustment of levels

more on tweaking channels


pros and cons of height adjustments On this subject one comment was that a user with a V700 did not discover this, but I have had two other users (one whom I know well) report they did find this.

lots to discuss about them, but they are quite good out of the box and with a little thought and effort can be developed further.

PS: I paid $100 for my last 4990 ... works perfectly

 

[cooltouch]

Thanks for the feeback!

I just "discovered" another one, made by HP -- the G4050 -- which does 35mm, medium format, and 4x5. Claimed 4800x9600 resolution. Priced very competitively. Anybody here tried this scanner?

Honestly, I'm a bit leary about HP products nowadays. I've had good luck with their laser printers, but lousy luck with their ink jet printers. I've never used an HP scanner.

-Michael

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I just "discovered" another one, made by HP -- the G4050 -- which does 35mm, medium format, and 4x5. Claimed 4800x9600 resolution. Priced very competitively. Anybody here tried this scanner?

while I haven't tried that scanner, I did have a HP S20. It was a well regarded device in the year 2000 but my Nikon has much better dust removal using hardware based ICE and my Epson flatbed exceeds its optical quality (in that order of decreasing impression of it).

I think HP made great flat beds back in the late 80's and more or less gave up some time after that.

 

[cooltouch]

I went ahead and bought an HP G4050. Did this a couple days ago. I'm also upgrading my system and haven't had much time at all to devote to it so far. My only initial impressions, really, are that the HP scanning software is awful. The software that came bundled with my Epson3170 is light-years better in terms of ease-of-use, flexibility, and power. I dunno, maybe after I've had a chance to spend more time with this HP scanner, my mind will change, but right now it doesn't look like it.

If I'm really unhappy with it, I have 30 days to return it, and I'll more than likely replace it with an Epson.

Best,

Michael

 

[pellicle]

Hi

My only initial impressions, really, are that the HP scanning software is awful. The software that came bundled with my Epson3170 is light-years better in terms of ease-of-use, flexibility, and power.

sorry to hear you've had a bad time with the HP. Software is often the killer with any computer interfaced hardware, before you give up, try vuescan with it (incase it helps). I'm no fan of it, but others are.

After nearly 20 years in electronics and computing I see time and time again stymied software ruin a good hardware platform. Personally I think that the Epson could be improved but there are known (discovered) work arounds.

The palm pilot is to me a prime example of software which never got a bugfix or a much needed development (both desktop side and handheld side). Successive owners (US Robotics, IBM ...) just bought it and flogged it without fixing a single issue or inconsistency from 1996 onwards.

scanners are no different



PS if you return it, I'd go for a 4990 used ... top machine for the money ... really! And for black and white work I think you'll be had pressed to find any difference between the 3200 and any other later version (I have one), I got one for a friend for US$60. Just be sure you scan in 16 bit positive mode. Holler if you need any help with it.

 

[cooltouch]

I'd go for a 4990 in a heartbeat if I could find one. They're even scarce on eBay. Probably a Canon 9950F also. Found a guy who has a practically unused Canon 9950F but he wants a lot for it.

I had a lot of problems with the software that came with the scanner. Couldn't get it to boot once I'd uninstalled and reinstalled it. After a while spent with a tech online at HP, I was directed to d/l the latest version for Vista and install it. I'm running XP, but he said it would work fine. The s/w looks the same, still the same clunky interface, but at least it's working now.

I'm running a test hi-res scan at the moment -- my first -- and will report back with examples once I've had more time to get familiar with it.

Best,

Michael

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I'd go for a 4990 in a heartbeat if I could find one. They're even scarce on eBay.

I registered a search for them, but seriously there will be little difference between the 4870 and 4990. I prefer the 4870 as it has a cold cathode lamp in the head while the 4990 has a moving row of LED's The 3200 has a fully illuminated pannel with no moving parts.

Honestly if you asked me to show the differences I could not, and I've done testing of linearity of them using stouffer step wedges. I do not see (sadly) huge differences in D-max (for instance) between them

have a read

the makers will be keener to extol virtues of newer models because they want you to buy the newer model ...

 

[tom_micklin]

Hi

sorry to hear you've had a bad time with the HP. Software is often the killer with any computer interfaced hardware, before you give up, try vuescan with it (incase it helps). I'm no fan of it, but others are.

Hi,
Just noticed this thread. I happened to purchase that same HP scanner and also found the software to be atrocious - I even tried Vuescan with it and still didn't have much luck.
So, I gave it away and got an Epson V700. I am running it with Vuescan, mainly for medium format negatives - but also some 4x5 and 5x7 negs and it is wonderful.

 

[cooltouch]

Well, I finally got the G4050 working. It took a call to HP's tech support. I was told to d/l the software for Vista, that it was newer than what I had, and that it would work just fine in XP. So I did, and t worked.

I played around with the scanner for a few hours, trying various settings to coax more sharpness out of it, but I wasn't having much luck.

So, I d/l'd a demo of Silverfast SE and a demo of Vuescan, installed them, and then ran tests on the same slide. Color tended to be better, but sharpness remained about the same.

Bottom line, my lowly old Epson 3170 blows the G4050 away when it comes to image sharpness.

I wanted to share what I'd learned here and elsewhere, but instead of duplicating posts, I decided I'd cobble together a web page, showing what I'd come up with. The page compares the HP G4050 with all three software flavors against the Epson 3170 with bundled Epson software and against an Opteka slide duplicator used on my Canon XS with cheapo 35-80 lens. Go here to read all about it:

http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/index.html

Thanks for the reminder, pellical -- it had slipped my mind that the 4870 does 4x5s too. Wish that one for sale locally hadn't gotten away. I'll keep my eyes open.

Best,

Michael

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Well, I finally got the G4050 working. It took a call to HP's tech support. I was told to d/l the software for Vista, that it

always glad to hear a happy story.

here to read all about it:

http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/index.html

interesting. I liked that comparison including the DSLR. If you are interested I would be willing to contribute to that comparison if you send me the film exposure in question I will scan it on Nikon LS-4000 and Epson 4990 and return it to you with a CD. You could then post both those too

PM me for details if you are interested

 

[cooltouch]

I appreciate your offer, pellicle. PM me with your address info and I'll send the slide to you.

Best,

Michael