Scanning My Ektachrome's & Velvia's Presents Dilemna

DF · Nov 24, 2024

Since I 'returned' to shooting color slide film, I now get them back 'sleeved' instead of mounted, and because I prefer to keep them that way, it seems the only way I could make best use of the Epson 850 Pro is to have them mounted so they could properly fit in the holders. Yes - I could cut them up into six-across strips and lay them down but don't want to do that - 'prefer them rolled up in the sleeve for the time being.
Now, there's a multitude of what appears to be single-frame scanners where I guess you fish them through one frame at a time, but without any extras to adjust.
Is there something I'm not getting with flat bed scanners?

mshchem · Nov 24, 2024

Flat bed scanners work great, except in your case. There's a gold rush right now on all the different ways to scan film. Negative Supply sells high end devices for fast digital camera scanning.

I would suggest cutting

_T_ · Nov 24, 2024

It's not a good idea to store your film rolled up. That's a good way to end up with a permanent curl in the film that you can never get rid of. Big pain in the butt for anyone dealing with the film down the line (you)

What is your reasoning for not wanting to cut the film into strips?

MattKing · Nov 24, 2024

Unless you are willing to search out an older film scanner with a roll film feed attachment, keeping them in the roll makes no sense.
Even if you should find such a scanner and get it working and learn about its associated software and hardware peculiarities, it still wouldn't make sense to leave the film rolled after you scan it once.
Developed film that has been kept rolled for an extended period of time is extremely difficult to handle, and prone to deterioration unless perfectly stored.
The only advantage of leaving it that way is that it can be stored and shipped easily.

Sirius Glass · Nov 24, 2024

_T_ said:
It's not a good idea to store your film rolled up. That's a good way to end up with a permanent curl in the film that you can never get rid of. Big pain in the butt for anyone dealing with the film down the line (you)

What is your reasoning for not wanting to cut the film into strips?

Also the film will rub against itself causing scratches.

DF · Nov 24, 2024

_T_ said:
It's not a good idea to store your film rolled up. That's a good way to end up with a permanent curl in the film that you can never get rid of. Big pain in the butt for anyone dealing with the film down the line (you)

What is your reasoning for not wanting to cut the film into strips?

Convenience - when I want to see them, I simply hold up the roll, unroll it slightly and hold up a loupe to the frame(s) I want to view.

mshchem · Nov 24, 2024

I cut negatives and chromes to fit printfiles, 5 35mm images per strip. I only scan a few select images. Mounted (glassless) slides keep great in Carousel trays. My father's 70+ year old (and newer) Kodak processed Kodachrome and Ektachrome slides are perfect.

Taylor Nankervis · Nov 24, 2024

Doesn't make sense really. The continuous sleeve in which processed E6 rolls are returned is not archivally stable over the medium to long-term; essentially, it is end-of-job 'packing material' that should be discarded. The next step on arriving home is the cutting and filing.

Apart from curling and emulsion damage common to E6 material from continuous rolled-up storage like this, it is not best practice, nor particularly sensible. Processed E6 transparencies do not have the renowned long-term stability that for example Kodachrome had (thousands of my 1970s-1990s Kodachrome slides are in beautiful condition, all sleeved and stored in archival boxes). Storing the chromes cut into strips of 6 in archivally stable, acid-free clear sleeves (or clear/verso-frosted sleeves), in turn then in a folio/folder or archive box, provides both convenience of storage and ready availability for quick viewing when scanning.

In my particular case, individual images scheduled for scanning then printing are snipped from the strips and mounted in archival card mounts. At the lab, the single frame is removed and taped to the drum scanner, then returned to the mask and taped down, inserted back into the poly sleeve and returned. Semi-stiff archival polyethylene cards (35mm, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 4x5 and others) are available at photographic suppliers.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
• 6x7 transparency individually poly-card mounted for scanning and printing

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
• Same poly card sleeves for 35mm + reference and CLEAR-FILE BLACK MASK TRANSPARENCY SLEEVES slip

mshchem · Nov 24, 2024

Taylor Nankervis said:
Doesn't make sense really. The continuous sleeve in which processed E6 rolls are returned is not archivally stable over the medium to long-term; essentially, it is end-of-job 'packing material' that should be discarded. The next step on arriving home is the cutting and filing.

Apart from curling and emulsion damage common to E6 material from continuous rolled-up storage like this, it is not best practice, nor particularly sensible. Processed E6 transparencies do not have the renowned long-term stability that for example Kodachrome had (thousands of my 1970s-1990s Kodachrome slides are in beautiful condition, all sleeved and stored in archival boxes). Storing the chromes cut into strips of 6 in archivally stable, acid-free clear sleeves (or clear/verso-frosted sleeves), in turn then in a folio/folder or archive box, provides both convenience of storage and ready availability for quick viewing when scanning.

In my particular case, individual images scheduled for scanning then printing are snipped from the strips and mounted in archival card mounts. At the lab, the single frame is removed and taped to the drum scanner, then returned to the mask and taped down, inserted back into the poly sleeve and returned. Semi-stiff archival polyethylene cards (35mm, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 4x5 and others) are available at photographic suppliers.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
• 6x7 transparency individually poly-card mounted for scanning and printing

View attachment 384154

Good advice, beautiful photo!

Taylor Nankervis · Nov 24, 2024

mshchem said:
Good advice, beautiful photo!

Apologies though for the tote crappy phone pic, but I'm just posting here and there while having a (late) morning tea!!

DF · Nov 24, 2024

MattKing said:
Unless you are willing to search out an older film scanner with a roll film feed attachment, keeping them in the roll makes no sense.
Even if you should find such a scanner and get it working and learn about its associated software and hardware peculiarities, it still wouldn't make sense to leave the film rolled after you scan it once.
Developed film that has been kept rolled for an extended period of time is extremely difficult to handle, and prone to deterioration unless perfectly stored.
The only advantage of leaving it that way is that it can be stored and shipped easily.

What exactly would the deterioration be due to? I'm told by the place that does the E-6 processing that the clear plastic sleeving is safe, fine for long lasting storage, etc. Of course I wonder because the plastic touches the film as opposed to being mounted which allows for a 'space' inbetween the mounts.

250swb · Nov 25, 2024

There are advantages to being conventional. Cutting into strips of six not only means they can be stored flat in negative files but they will fit into the Epson film holders so you can make a digital contact sheet which reduces handling and is more convenient for viewing. Only when you want to make a full resolution scan would you need to handle individual strips again. Negative files are archival quality which deals with the 'is it or isn't it' question of the sleeve the lab uses and they are more robust to protect the film. Going on from there you may want to upgrade your Epson in the future and use a camera for scanning and nearly all accessory film holders are based around working with a six frame strip, and the biggest frustration is if the film strip isn't flat and wants to curl, at which point you'd be kicking yourself for not keeping them flat to start with. And of course negative files give you lots of space to number and date the film and write notes.

DF · Nov 25, 2024

Taylor Nankervis said:
Doesn't make sense really. The continuous sleeve in which processed E6 rolls are returned is not archivally stable over the medium to long-term; essentially, it is end-of-job 'packing material' that should be discarded. The next step on arriving home is the cutting and filing.

Apart from curling and emulsion damage common to E6 material from continuous rolled-up storage like this, it is not best practice, nor particularly sensible. Processed E6 transparencies do not have the renowned long-term stability that for example Kodachrome had (thousands of my 1970s-1990s Kodachrome slides are in beautiful condition, all sleeved and stored in archival boxes). Storing the chromes cut into strips of 6 in archivally stable, acid-free clear sleeves (or clear/verso-frosted sleeves), in turn then in a folio/folder or archive box, provides both convenience of storage and ready availability for quick viewing when scanning.

In my particular case, individual images scheduled for scanning then printing are snipped from the strips and mounted in archival card mounts. At the lab, the single frame is removed and taped to the drum scanner, then returned to the mask and taped down, inserted back into the poly sleeve and returned. Semi-stiff archival polyethylene cards (35mm, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 4x5 and others) are available at photographic suppliers.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
• 6x7 transparency individually poly-card mounted for scanning and printing

View attachment 384154

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
• Same poly card sleeves for 35mm + reference and CLEAR-FILE BLACK MASK TRANSPARENCY SLEEVES slip

View attachment 384171

View attachment 384172

"is not archivally stable over the medium to long-term" the place I have E-6 done is one of the most reputable in the country and they say the sleeving they use is archival (though it certainly doesn't feel like the PrintFile pages) and that they could be cut up in strips, remain in the strips and inserted in PrintFile extra space files indefinitely.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 25, 2024

DF said:
Since I 'returned' to shooting color slide film, I now get them back 'sleeved' instead of mounted, and because I prefer to keep them that way, it seems the only way I could make best use of the Epson 850 Pro is to have them mounted so they could properly fit in the holders. Yes - I could cut them up into six-across strips and lay them down but don't want to do that - 'prefer them rolled up in the sleeve for the time being.
Now, there's a multitude of what appears to be single-frame scanners where I guess you fish them through one frame at a time, but without any extras to adjust.
Is there something I'm not getting with flat bed scanners?

What do you mean: "....lay them down...?" Do you mean on the glass? Don;t you have the film holder for 35mm film strips in addition to the 35mm slide holders? You should have two holders for each if you bought the V850 as new from a dealer.

jeffreyg · Nov 25, 2024

Mounted slides are easier and more safely handled Scanning with the Epson holder keeps them off the glass and easier to remove from the scanner avoiding fingers touching the glass leaving fingerprints that require more frequent cleaning of the glass.

_T_ · Nov 25, 2024

You should be wearing gloves when you’re scanning with a flatbed and any time you’re handling unsleeved film

Taylor Nankervis · Nov 25, 2024

DF said:
"is not archivally stable over the medium to long-term" the place I have E-6 done is one of the most reputable in the country and they say the sleeving they use is archival (though it certainly doesn't feel like the PrintFile pages) and that they could be cut up in strips, remain in the strips and inserted in PrintFile extra space files indefinitely.

What did you sprinkle on your toast...?
Why would you leave them in that plastic, and then in turn, slip it into a Print-File sleeve??

All that sleeve amounts to is disposable 'packing material' for you to safely get the finished roll home, after which you move on to the proper task of ideally cutting the roll into strips of 6 and sleeve it (and such a format is a simple task for Epson scanners using their supplied holders). You then have a convenient, easily stored format that is easy to find, even easier to vet for selecting individual images for e.g. maybe printing, etc., as opposed to a roll wound up in a plastic sleeve, never to see the light of day again.

Unlike Kodachrome's legendary stability, processed E6 materials are a different beast, and will benefit over the long-term by occasional exposure to bright light, meaning projection, but as projectors are now as rare as seeing Jesus at a prom formal, a light table or scanner is what most of us use.

MattKing · Nov 25, 2024

PrintFile makes archival sleeving material for labs who sleeve into whole rolls. They indicate that that material has the same archival properties as their pages.
Historically, others did make cheaper and less desirable sleeving material.

Taylor Nankervis · Nov 25, 2024

MattKing said:
PrintFile makes archival sleeving material for labs who sleeve into whole rolls. They indicate that that material has the same archival properties as their pages.
Historically, others did make cheaper and less desirable sleeving material.

Yes, they do indeed, additional to sleeves for 8x10, 4x5, 35mm, 6x6 and 6x7 (et al). Availability ongoing however has a question mark over it.

In these times there are labs that are actively cost-saving when overheads and processing materials are increasing quite dramatically; it is regrettable that labs I have had dealings with are using sleeves of unknown providence — oddly stiff and undeniably plastic-y in feel (that would not be Print-File!). The sleeves I have my work returned in are stamped with Print-File along the top and bottom edges; a second fall-back lab returns rolls in clear/frosted sleeve of German origin.

Scanning My Ektachrome's & Velvia's Presents Dilemna

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Scanning My Ektachrome's & Velvia's Presents Dilemna

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