Scanner shopping sweet spot?

jay moussy · Jun 13, 2020

I may break down and get my first photo-capable scanner, for 135, 120 formats, leaving future 4x5 work to other methods.
Hobby level, not high-level work.

No clue on the current offerings, and what is fairly compatible with Linux, my preferred, but not only environment.

Is there a "seasonal" product upgrade cycle I could benefit from?

Suggestions, please!

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 13, 2020

Epson V600 refurbished $140.00 by Epson. Includes one year warranty. Good deal. I use V600. You can see my 120 and 35mm samples on my FLickr site. I've always used Windows.
Good luck.
https://epson.com/Clearance-Center/...00-Photo-Scanner---Refurbished/p/B11B198011-N

Check with Epson if it works with Linux.

George Collier · Jun 18, 2020

I'd also recommend the Epson V600, decent quality, and new is only $225, or close to it. I used one at work for things and tried some 35mm tri-x from the 80's, very nice. The only limitation is a smaller scan area, so you can't do as many 6x6 images at a time, but that may not be a problem.

jay moussy · Jul 28, 2020

Well, what is up with the apparent shortage of most Epson scanners?

Most outlets are out of stock, it seems. Odd.

PhilBurton · Jul 28, 2020

jay moussy said:
Well, what is up with the apparent shortage of most Epson scanners?

Most outlets are out of stock, it seems. Odd.

Just a guess. The factory is either closed or running at a lower production rate, at the same time that house-bound people have decided that NOW is the time to get started on that big scanning project. Just a guess, of course.

138S · Jul 28, 2020

jay moussy said:
I may break down and get my first photo-capable scanner, for 135, 120 formats, leaving future 4x5 work to other methods.
Hobby level, not high-level work.

No clue on the current offerings, and what is fairly compatible with Linux, my preferred, but not only environment.
Is there a "seasonal" product upgrade cycle I could benefit from?

Suggestions, please!

Epson scanners have Linux drivers.

If you plan to scan film in the long term then I would recommend the V800 or V850, in my country Amazon sells the V850 today for 680€ plus VAT taxes. B&H and Adorama have ir for $1150, I don't know why presently it is that expensive in the USA, low stock bacause of covid manufacturing issues?

The V800/850 will make 4x5, so it's an investment for the future. You always can start with the cheaper V600 that will be ok for many situations, but the V800/850 is a better performer and it includes better ANR glass holders, allows to better recover deep shadows in dense slides and it includes Silverfast, the V850 has the Silverfast SE plus version allowing multi-exposure (https://www.silverfast.com/highlights/multi-exposure/en.html), The V800 requires upgrading the Silverfast version to have multi-exposure.

The V800/850 on the paper is not as a good performer as high end scanners, but most of the times it reaches enough performance to take all what film has in practice, so a better scanner has little advantage, or no advantage at all, specially for MF and up.

The V600 is consumer level, the V800 is prosumer level, but none of those are Pro level, still one may get perfectly Pro level quality from them if being careful in the scanning and proficient in the edition. Epson scans always require a wise edition to get most of it, while a pro scanner usually delivers a very well optimized image. See this https://petapixel.com/2017/05/01/16000-photo-scanner-vs-500-scanner/

With the V600 it's even more important to perform a wise scanning/edition for optimal results.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 28, 2020

138S said:
Epson scanners have Linux drivers.

If you plan to scan film in the long term then I would recommend the V800 or V850, in my country Amazon sells the V850 today for 680€ plus VAT taxes. B&H and Adorama have ir for $1150, I don't know why presently it is that expensive in the USA, low stock bacause of covid manufacturing issues?

View attachment 251384

The V800/850 will make 4x5, so it's an investment for the future. You always can start with the cheaper V600 that will be ok for many situations, but the V800/850 is a better performer and it includes better ANR glass holders, allows to better recover deep shadows in dense slides and it includes Silverfast, the V850 has the Silverfast SE plus version allowing multi-exposure (https://www.silverfast.com/highlights/multi-exposure/en.html), The V800 requires upgrading the Silverfast version to have multi-exposure.

The V800/850 on the paper is not as a good performer as high end scanners, but most of the times it reaches enough performance to take all what film has in practice, so a better scanner has little advantage, or no advantage at all, specially for MF and up.

The V600 is consumer level, the V800 is prosumer level, but none of those are Pro level, still one may get perfectly Pro level quality from them if being careful in the scanning and proficient in the edition. Epson scans always require a wise edition to get most of it, while a pro scanner usually delivers a very well optimized image. See this https://petapixel.com/2017/05/01/16000-photo-scanner-vs-500-scanner/

With the V600 it's even more important to perform a wise scanning/edition for optimal results.

I used a V600 for many years for 35mm and 6x7 medium format. No printing Used for internet and slide shows on 4K UHD and 2K HD TV's. They look great on a 75" TV. I just upgraded to V850 because I started shooting 4x5's. Here are scans I did with the two scanners.
V600 6x7's: https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=rb67&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1
V600 35mm https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=35mm&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1
V850 4x5 https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=v850&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1

Slide show 1920x1080 with 35mm Ektachromes.
I did a comparison of a 4x5 BW negative between the V850 and Howtek 8000 drum scanner here: https://www.largeformatphotography....-Epson-V850-flatbed-scanners&highlight=howtek

Deleted member 88956 · Jul 28, 2020

jay moussy said:
Well, what is up with the apparent shortage of most Epson scanners?

Most outlets are out of stock, it seems. Odd.

When looking for V600 don't forget V550, essentially same thing. Strangely prices flip flop between these two, so you never know which one is going to be cheaper at any given time.

138S · Jul 28, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
I did a comparison of a 4x5 BW negative between the V850 and Howtek 8000 drum scanner here: https://www.largeformatphotography....-Epson-V850-flatbed-scanners&highlight=howtek

Alan, while there is no doubt that the V850 is a way less capable machine than the howtek drum, your test shows that when the V850 is used proficiently it can match a high end machine, simply because the V850 is good enough to take most of the Image Quality film usually contains.

It is not that easy to match a drum with an Epson, you did a well done job that not everyboby is able to do, but this shows that's worth to make an effort to optimize the workflow with the Epson, having those totally Pro results from such a (comparatively) cheap machine is something fantastic !!!

I guess you start being proud of your Epson

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 28, 2020

Witold said:
When looking for V600 don't forget V550, essentially same thing. Strangely prices flip flop between these two, so you never know which one is going to be cheaper at any given time.

I don't believe the V550 has ICE for prints as does the V600. The V600 can scan three 6x7s at a time which is limited, I believe, to two with the V550. (Unfortunately, the V850 scans only two as well which is mind boggling). Compare the complete specs before you make a purchase.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 28, 2020

138S said:
Alan, while there is no doubt that the V850 is a way less capable machine than the howtek drum, your test shows that when the V850 is used proficiently it can match a high end machine, simply because the V850 is good enough to take most of the Image Quality film usually contains.

It is not that easy to match a drum with an Epson, you did a well done job that not everyboby is able to do, but this shows that's worth to make an effort to optimize the workflow with the Epson, having those totally Pro results from such a (comparatively) cheap machine is something fantastic !!!

I guess you start being proud of your Epson

In fairness to the Howtek drum scanner, I never did a print with either it or the V850. Comparing them would be the ultimate test. Especially if enlarging one significantly. But for the web and for big UHDTV's, the V850 is very good.

Deleted member 88956 · Jul 28, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
I don't believe the V550 has ICE for prints as does the V600. The V600 can scan three 6x7s at a time which is limited, I believe, to two with the V550. (Unfortunately, the V850 scans only two as well which is mind boggling). Compare the complete specs before you make a purchase.

film holders are same for both, film scanning area too

138S · Jul 28, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
In fairness to the Howtek drum scanner, I never did a print with either it or the V850.

Well, if you can match both the general tonality and the 100% crops look equal then for sure you can make the same print from one or from the other, there is no mistery in that.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 28, 2020

Witold said:
film holders are same for both, film scanning area too

I was able to scan three 6x7's on my V600.

So has that changed? Does that mean three 6x7's? or three 6x6's? Or two?

The spec section for V550 says the following: (Note 9.5"= 24.13cm but the holders spec indicate 6x22cm)
Transparency Adapter:
Type:Built into lid - - 35 mm mounted slides (4 frames) - - 35 mm film holders (12 frames) - 6x22 cm medium-format film holders (2 frames)
Maximum Scan Area:8.5" x 11.7," TPU 2.7" x 9.5"

For the V600 it says:
Transparency Adapter:
Supported Film Size:

35 mm mounted slides (4 frames)
35 mm film strips (12 frames)
Medium format strips 6x22 cm (2 frames)

Type:Built-in lidDust/Scratch Removal:Digital ICE for FilmTransparency Size:2.7" x 9.5"

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 28, 2020

Epson Perfection V600 Photo Scanner https://epson.com/For-Home/Scanners/Photo-Scanners/Epson-Perfection-V600-Photo-Scanner/p/B11B198011
V550 https://epson.com/For-Work/Scanners...fection-V550-Photo-Color-Scanner/p/B11B210201

Ko.Fe. · Jul 28, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
I don't believe the V550 has ICE for prints as does the V600. The V600 can scan three 6x7s at a time which is limited, I believe, to two with the V550. (Unfortunately, the V850 scans only two as well which is mind boggling). Compare the complete specs before you make a purchase.

Scans of prints with ICE? What do you do with your prints?
V550 does have normal ICE for color film.

Pflaumesaft · Jul 28, 2020

I've used the V550 for a few years, but could never get it to focus on the grain even with glass holders.

The Plustek dedicated 35mm scanners are affordable and MUCH better than any flatbed. I've used the 7400 for the past 7 years, the newer 8100's are even cheaper and supposedly the same.

ICE doesn't work for B&W, so save yourself the money.

For medium format, flatbeds are adequate.

Deleted member 88956 · Jul 29, 2020

Pflaumesaft said:
I've used the V550 for a few years, but could never get it to focus on the grain even with glass holders.

The Plustek dedicated 35mm scanners are affordable and MUCH better than any flatbed. I've used the 7400 for the past 7 years, the newer 8100's are even cheaper and supposedly the same.

ICE doesn't work for B&W, so save yourself the money.

For medium format, flatbeds are adequate.

Shim it up, flatbed scanners are sample to sample not the same, some will not focus correctly out of factory, applies to ALL flatbed scanners, no matter the cost or make. So if focus is wrong, got to play with it.

Deleted member 88956 · Jul 29, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
I was able to scan three 6x7's on my V600.

So has that changed? Does that mean three 6x7's? or three 6x6's? Or two?

The spec section for V550 says the following: (Note 9.5"= 24.13cm but the holders spec indicate 6x22cm)
Transparency Adapter:
Type:Built into lid - - 35 mm mounted slides (4 frames) - - 35 mm film holders (12 frames) - 6x22 cm medium-format film holders (2 frames)
Maximum Scan Area:8.5" x 11.7," TPU 2.7" x 9.5"

For the V600 it says:
Transparency Adapter:
Supported Film Size:

35 mm mounted slides (4 frames)

35 mm film strips (12 frames)

Medium format strips 6x22 cm (2 frames)

Type:Built-in lidDust/Scratch Removal:Digital ICE for FilmTransparency Size:2.7" x 9.5"

Holders are the same and scanning area for "transparency" (read: film) are the same, all there is to it. I was never able to put a finger on the difference between the two and Epson is not open showing it either. ICE for prints? If that is the only difference, than there is no difference.

Scanning 3 6x7 within 22mm length is subject to frame spacing, some cameras will not give you that and without chopping off one of the frames it won't work.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 29, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Scans of prints with ICE? What do you do with your prints?
V550 does have normal ICE for color film.

Old photos from a photo album. Only the V600 uses ICE to eliminate the cracks and damages on photos. Both units use ICE on film.

jay moussy · Sep 25, 2020

Update: I received a notification from an online retailer that the Epson V600 is back in stock.
This may be new to some. It was to me.

I think this model would be plenty for my anticipated use.
I have a lot more to learn about photography before even approaching the finer points of scanning.
Just wondering if a newer version or model is around the corner?

Deleted member 88956 · Sep 25, 2020

jay moussy said:
Update: I received a notification from an online retailer that the Epson V600 is back in stock.
This may be new to some. It was to me.

I think this model would be plenty for my anticipated use.
I have a lot more to learn about photography before even approaching the finer points of scanning.
Just wondering if a newer version or model is around the corner?

flatbed scanners have been stuck at zero improvement for good 10 years. Even if Epson releases a 650 or something it is unlikely to be any different in results.

138S · Sep 25, 2020

Witold said:
flatbed scanners have been stuck at zero improvement for good 10 years. Even if Epson releases a 650 or something it is unlikely to be any different in results.

Sometimes more than 10... the V750 is 2006 vintage, 14 years in production, the V850 has some advantages but the same core.

jay moussy · Sep 25, 2020

Wow...
There may be have been some optimization under the hood, not readily apparent to the user?

Deleted member 88956 · Sep 25, 2020

jay moussy said:
Wow...
There may be have been some optimization under the hood, not readily apparent to the user?

To give you an idea, Epson's 4870 which is probably 20 years back, was succeeded by 4990, (before V700 came along). To this day you will find arguments 4870 lost no ground over 4990 in output quality, and hardly much to V700 and by extension V800.

It appears, despite much superior technology being available, nobody bothers changing much except perhaps improving processing speed. Same is the case with dedicated film scanners, stuck in the old days. Why is it? Can't be trying to cash in on once established approach as there is not a lot to change in order to make a significant improvement. But his is for conspiracy theorists to discuss.

Scanner shopping sweet spot?

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