Sawyer's Mark IV, Primo Jr - shutter repair tips

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StepheKoontz

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I recently bought a couple of these, and I saw when I was looking for one, that almost all of them for sale have either stuck or erratic shutters. One was bought "for parts" (frozen shutter) and the second was supposed to be working correctly, but in fact had an erratic shutter too. I could see grease oozing out between the shutter blades on one I purchased for parts and turns out the repair is quite simple. I got both of them working.

Remove the front lens element group using a "rubber ring" tool, on both of my cameras they unscrewed fairly easily. Set the aperture to f22 to protect the rear lens element and set the shutter speed to 1/500. Next, soak a Q-tip (get real Q-tips, not cheap generics) with some automotive brake cleaner, dab lightly to saturate the blades and try to operate the shutter. It might take a few tries to get it to open. Each time it cycles, wipe any goop off the blades and cycle again, rewipe. Keeps the blades wet with brake cleaner while you are doing this. Obviously be very gentle and replace the Q-tips regularly. I had to "soak" the blades around 4-5 soaks for it to look like all the grease was gone. Next I recommend letting the camera sit for a few hours uncocked, with the front lens element left out, before trying any speeds below 1/500, I'll explain why below:

The next part seemed strange but don't panic if this happens to you. I think you can avoid this by cleaning at 1/500 and just letting the camera sit for a few hours before trying the lower speeds. It happened with both of mine exactly the same way. When I got the blades clean/dry, on one of the next few test cycles at lower speeds, the blades appeared to jam half closed. The crank also wouldn't turn with the shutter half open so do NOT try to force it! Set the shutter speed back to 1/500 and gently tap the camera with your hand. After a minute or so the blades will close (be patient) and then cycle it a couple of times on 1/500. Now just let the camera sit for a couple of hours with the front lens element out for any residual cleaner to evaporate (like I suggested in the above paragraph). Then set the shutter back to a low speed and (at least on both of mine) the shutter now works prefect. Once you are happy with the shutter, clean the inside glass surfaces and reinstall the front group.

These shutters seem to have a VERY light spring that operates the blades and unless they are either swimming in cleaning fluid or are bone dry, they don't work right. If the blades don't open, the low speed mechanism doesn't engage either, so it appears the shutter is totally broken or stuck on one speed, when it's just some grease has migrated in between the blades and has them stuck closed.

I'm not going to claim these couldn't use a full disassembly and cleaning, but this technique got them both working, at least for now, and if they freeze up again, I'll dig in deeper.

These are probably the highest quality 127 film baby TLR made and I'm glad to have a couple functioning now :smile:
 

Kino

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That's pretty much my technique for any leaf shutter type camera, only I tend to use Naptha to get the blades unstuck and then clean them again with 99% Iso Alchohol. As you state, sometimes they stick and you have to coax them back out again with vibration or extra cleaner, but eventually the blades will clean up and the shutter will be happy.
 

eli griggs

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These are probably the highest quality 127 film baby TLR made and I'm glad to have a couple functioning now :smile:

I agree, and the close up ability is wonderful as well. I have the Sawyer's Mk. IV, a rebadged Primo Jr. and I'm luck as it works well, however, It's covering has just recently been lost on one side, in two pieces, and I contacted Morgan Sparks, at Camera Leather, and he has very reasonable rates for faux and real leather coverings.

If your 127's need new skins, you may want to check him out.

Thanks for posting this how-two, I'll save it as you never know when your favorite old kit is going tits up.
 

choiliefan

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I have a Primo Jr with sticky shutter below 1/30th sec.
It is a beautiful design with superb Topcor 2.8 lens and bright viewfinder.
My only complaint is that unlike the similar/probably inferior Yashica, it's impossible to use 35mm cassettes without irreparably ruining the 127 reel cradle.
The Sawyers/Primo Jr is the camera the 4X4 Rollei could have been.
 
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Does anyone know how to adjust Copal 0 shutters on large format lenses. I just bought a Schneider APO 150mm Symmar MC. My tests of the shutter speeds shows them about 1/3 stop fast up to and including 1/30th second. 1/60th is about 1/6 of a stop and faster seem normal.
 

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itsdoable

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I recently bought a couple of these...
.... Set the aperture to f22 to protect the rear lens element and set the shutter speed to 1/500. Next, soak a Q-tip (get real Q-tips, not cheap generics) with some automotive brake cleaner, dab lightly to saturate the blades and try to operate the shutter. It might take a few tries to get it to open. Each time it cycles, wipe any goop off the blades and cycle again, rewipe. Keeps the blades wet with brake cleaner while you are doing this. Obviously be very gentle and replace the Q-tips regularly. I had to "soak" the blades around 4-5 soaks for it to look like all the grease was gone....
I won't argue that this works, but I have always recommended a proper dismantle and cleaning of the mechanism. Soaking the blades and moping up the residue can remove most of the resinified grease/oil from the visible parts, but the same solvent also drives the unwanted oils deeper into the mechanism, and after the solvent dries, the mechanism will start showing issues again. But you do buy a year or more, depending on how the rest of the mechanism is like.

A full dismantle is not that hard, and you can properly clean to parts that need to run dry, remove the old oils from the clock work mechanism and re-lube it (sparingly) with a light long lasting oil. I have been using an ultrasonic cleaner in the last ~10 years, which speeds up the process.

volna3_5irisblade.jpg


This is the aperture part, I don't have a picture handy of the shutter disassembled. But done this way, the mechanism is good for a decade or 2. As long as you did not put too much oil on the clockwork - as it will migrate into the blades otherwise. I believe that over-lubing the clockwork mechanism by previous service personal is responsible for many a stuck shutter/iris.
 

eli griggs

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As I recall, you can thin your oil by mixing it 1:1 with naphtha and, when the naphtha evaporates off, have a light oil coating remaining which was thin enough to reach places the thicker oil could no reach, on its own.

I happen to like Remington gun oil, with Teflon, no the spray for this but the bottled stuff.

Double check the above with others and good luck whatever you do.
 

thuggins

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The shutter on my Mark IV is, thankfully, working fine. But my Ricoh Super 44 has the "fires at the same speed (~1/25?) regardless of the setting problem". I assume the first step in getting at the shutter is to remove the leather cover on the front to reveal some screws and such? Any suggestions on servicing TLR's in general, or this camera specifically, would be welcomed.
 

eli griggs

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Check youTube and old post on this site, and also ask and check on the rangefinderforum threads, you never know whats been done until you do that.

IMO.
 
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