Saunders LPL Negative Carrier Dimensions

[Reinhold]

Can anyone provide the dimensions as noted on the attached photo?
Please use an accurate metal scale with 1mm increments.

A= Critical Dimension. Measure to nearest 1/2 mm.
(Diameter of opening in the hole in the enlargers base plate.)

B= Non Critical.* Measure to nearest full mm.
C= Non Critical.* Measure to nearest full mm.
D= Non Critical.
What is the maximum practical width possible?
E= Non Critical.
F= Non Critical

Thanks
Reinhold

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Hey Reinhold,

I'll try to work this up when I get home. What you got cooking? Something fancy for the LPL 4x5?

Parker

 

[Reinhold]

Yep

 

[George Nova Scotia]

Having braved the spiders in the basement to find a metric ruler here's my take:

A - carrier 161mm baseplate 162mm dia.
B 179mm
C 218mm
D 178mm
E 61mm
F 61mm

As for you max width question. I don't see anything that would limit the width.
Carrier used is a LPL 3621-41EX 35mm glassless. Baseplate is from a Saunders/LPL 4550XL.

 

[Reinhold]

George, your sacrafice is gratefully received.

Now, after your hands quit shaking (or maybe to steady them) a dram or two is deserved.

Reinhold

 

[bdial]

Regarding the width, actually, the LPL carriers can be inserted sideways, so there would be a width limitation between the carrier and the column, if you were to maintain full compatibility. OTH, I've only used the feature a few times.
I can measure that later tonight if needed.

Any consideration of making carriers (inserts) for a Durst Femomask?
If anyone thinks LPL carriers are expensive, they are pocket change in comparison.
just curious.

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Yep

So, do we need to sign a non disclosure to find out? I own an XLG, so I'm definitely interested.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Don't forget the thickness limitation! I bought an Omega glass carrier for a backup and it was too thick to go into the slot. I am not near my enlarger right now to measure it otherwise I would. Something to look out for though.

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Don't forget the thickness limitation! I bought an Omega glass carrier for a backup and it was too thick to go into the slot. I am not near my enlarger right now to measure it otherwise I would. Something to look out for though.

Good point! That's a very tight fit with the LPL carriers.

 

[Reinhold]

Hmmm...

It would be a shame to design a carrier like a Dogwood Sandwich: Jam every feature you can think of into it.
Kind of sounds like Patrick's glass carrier.

Question #1: What is the thickness of a standard production LPL Carrier, NOT including the indexing bars on the underside of the carrier?
Question #2: What is the thickness of indexing bars on the underside of the carrier?
Question #3: What is the maximum clearance between the baseplate and the lamphouse? This may not be so easy to measure accurately.
Question #4: Do all LPL's have the same clearance?

Thanks for the input, folks
Reinhold

 

[George Nova Scotia]

Question #1: What is the thickness of a standard production LPL Carrier, NOT including the indexing bars on the underside of the carrier?
A: 4.2mm glassless, 6.6 double glass 4x4 (includes index - which is 1.1mm)

Question #2: What is the thickness of indexing bars on the underside of the carrier?
A: 2mm

Question #3: What is the maximum clearance between the baseplate and the lamphouse? This may not be so easy to measure accurately.
A: with the lever up approx 7.3mm. with the negative stage plate removed 13.5mm. With masking negative stage plate ??

Question #4: Do all LPL's have the same clearance?
A: Sorry I only have the one model....

 

[Reinhold]

Thanks George.

Good data, any variants out there?

Reinhold

 

[Reinhold]

It seems that "engineers" at LPL designed a one-trick pony making it tough to produce low cost alternative negative carriers.

LPL's use of non-standard (metric?) aluminum sheet to make 4.2mm thin carriers is one obstacle.
The other obstacle is choking the maximum lift of the lamphouse to a mere 7~8mm.

The thinnest carriers I can economically make are about 6.5mm (1/4") thick (plus 2mm for indexing pins).
This means that the lamphouse would have to raise a minimum of 8.6mm above the base plate.

If the folks using LPL enlargers can devise a simple way to open the lamphouse to about 3/8" (about 10mm)...
... I could supply a simple, robust negative carrier for common formats for about $40.

To see examples of my workmanship, go here: http://re-inventedphotoequip.com/Site/Special Carriers.html

Reinhold

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Reinhold, I would be really interested in a glass carrier, with anti-newton glass on top and coated glass on the bottom, that would allow enlargement of the entire 4x5 negative. I think many other people would too. I don't know why the Saunders carrier crops as much as it does.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

It actually isn't that hard to make this yourself, and this way you can customize it to your own needs. I did a 4x5 and a 35mm for my LPL 4550. I started with glassless LPL carriers sourced from KHB - which they machined out to oversize. I installed coated optical glass from Schneider. Some careful measuring and shimming to make sure it is precise, but overall not very difficult. The machining by KHB was quite reasonable. High quality optical glass, custom cut is the expensive part.

Where did you get the Schneider glass Michael?

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Michael, I would love to know how you made a glass carrier for 35mm for the Saunders. I would love to have one dedicated to 35. Wouldn't mind the contact info either....

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Michael, I would love to know how you made a glass carrier for 35mm for the Saunders. I would love to have one dedicated to 35. Wouldn't mind the contact info either....

Here's how I use my 4x5 glass carrier with a black plastic mask for printing 6x7 negs with the film border:




The plastic mask can be flexed to tuck into the grooves on the long side of the carrier. A little strip of black and some masking tape blocks any stray light on the short sides. It's easily removed and changed to another size, if needed.

PecPads are the bomb for killing dust on the glass and negatives!

 

[Alain Dore]

Reviving an old post...

I'm new to 4x5 photography and get my hands on a LPL 4550 XL. Trouble is, no negative stage plate and I can't find one anywhere. So I'm going to make one. The only dimensions I'm struggling with are the thickness (4mm I believe) and the inside width and length of the plate. The 179/178mm measurements noted above are for the negative carrier not the plate, if I understand correctly. With those dimensions and a 162mm for the hole in the middle, I can get to work. Thanks everyone.

 

[bdial]

Reviving an old post...

I'm new to 4x5 photography and get my hands on a LPL 4550 XL. Trouble is, no negative stage plate and I can't find one anywhere. So I'm going to make one. The only dimensions I'm struggling with are the thickness (4mm I believe) and the inside width and length of the plate. The 179/178mm measurements noted above are for the negative carrier not the plate, if I understand correctly. With those dimensions and a 162mm for the hole in the middle, I can get to work. Thanks everyone.

The stage plate is 190 mm right to left and 195mm fore and aft. The metal part is 2mm thick. On each side, on the underside there are a couple of plastic "runners" which are about 4mm thick, and run the length of each side. The plate has a right-angle edge on the back, left and right.

It would likely be costly, but you may be able to get a replacement plate from KHB Phtograpfix in Ontario (website khbphotografix.com). Or, it might be a good excuse to just buy the masking plate.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

You can also use carriers for the Omega D enlargers though the screws on the underside make them a tight fit sometimes.

 

[Alain Dore]

KBH and B&H don't have them in stock and backorder is endless but I'll call tomorrow to see if they have an Omega D plate that would work.

Thanks for the tips and measurements.

 

[Alain Dore]

No joy at KBH or B&H. Covid supply chain issues means they have no ETA for the negative stage plates and masking plates. And KHB says no other negative stage will work. Time to break out the tools!

 

[Alain Dore]

Can anyone post pictures of the negative carrier plate, please? All I found is the small one posted in my previous post. Maybe a top shot, bottom and sides?

 

[bdial]

Can anyone post pictures of the negative carrier plate, please? All I found is the small one posted in my previous post. Maybe a top shot, bottom and sides?

let me know if you want more/different pictures

Top

bottom

side

front

 

[Alain Dore]

Thank you so much. These are very helpful! If I can trouble you for one more shot. An closeup on-edge shot of the bent edge and rail. There seems to be the bent edge, the plastic rail and another lip I can't quite make out.