Salt Printing: Where Have You Been All My Life??

[fgorga]

Thanks for the tips, Frank. I appreciate it! I'll keep the silver and citrate separate. What percentage of citrate solution are you working with? I have been experimenting with Gold as well as Selenium. I do really like the native colour of salt, though. The blue food colouring is brilliant idea!
For important prints, I will definitely fix in two baths. Thanks!!

Andrew,

I use 30% silver nitrate and 12% citric acid mixed in a 1:1 ratio.

I, too, enjoy the native color of a salt print and most of my prints are untoned. I'm partial to warm prints in general. However, there are some images that just don't work too warm. Thus, I tone a small percentage of my prints.

Aside from the aesthetics, the case for toning is really about stability. Plating the silver particles of a salt print with gold, platinum or palladium (all of which are less reactive than silver) definitely stabilizes the print against atmospheric contaminants.

 

[fgorga]

My take on stability of salt prints...

There are two aspects to the stability of salt prints: removal of contaminants during processing and minimizing damage by atmospheric contaminants.

The first is minimized by proper processing... a two bath fix and the use of sodium sulfite ("wash aid") to help remove the fixer.

The second (as @koraks has detailed above in post #12) is can be minimized by toning with a metal that is less reactive than silver; gold, platinum & palladium are the usual choices.

That said, as previously noted, properly processed, untoned salt prints are quite stable but probably less stable than silver gelatin prints as described by @koraks .

Christina Anderson's book has the most current information about processing salt prints. If one is interested in the history, take a look at a book by James M. Reilly titled "The Albumen & Salted Paper Book". This scholarly book summarizes the early history of these processes and has a section specifically addressing the permanence of early prints.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

@fgorga, thank you for all your input. It's greatly appreciated!

 

[NedL]

All the ones that are faded beyond recognition are likely to have been discarded over the last century or so. So we can safely say a salt print can last very long - but not much more than that.

Hi Koraks, I really do think there is a correlation between wash time and longevity. Sure, there are lots of other factors ( inadequate fix, use of sel d' or, paper, poor storage ) that can contribute to fading and deterioration. I guess my point is that salt prints are not inherently short-lived.

Perhaps photographers that used long wash were also careful about other aspects of the process.

When I think of long wash times, Thomas Rodger comes to mind. His instructions included >24 hours wash. Some of his prints are still in excellent condition. I usually wash mine for 3 hours with a number of changes of water....

 

[pentaxuser]

Low relative humidity, stored in archival materials (passed PAT test) at room temperature or a little cooler.


Centuries.
But mess it up, and centuries can turn into weeks or months.

What constitutes low relative humidity range, what's a PAT test( Google only gave me Portable Appliance Test ) and does stored exclude displaying it on a wall in any way whatsoever?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

Sounds like your

I really do think there is a correlation between wash time and longevity.

Oh, no doubt at all! I just meant to say that our views tend to be biased when we base ourselves on historic collections. It has implications for the conclusions we can draw, but I think the utility of thorough washing is uncontested.

 

[nmp]

Another way to incorporate citric acid is to add it to the salting solution.

My 2c regarding stability and archival processing: incomplete fixing will darken the print over time (sometimes relatively short) while inadequately washed print will fade because of formation of sulfuric molecules as residual thiosulfate degrades. Best way to assure for these two aspects of process is to do the testing under one's own conditions (paper, process, chemistry, technique) as I did for mine. For fixing times, expose the print in direct sunlight for several hours and see if any darkening takes place in the Dmin. For washing, do a residual fixer test. I don't know of any accelerated fading test (is there?) that will correlate to the residual hypo so that is a bit of leap of faith to make sure there is no discernible thiosulfate remains.

For example, for my own set of conditions, I chose 30 mins (yes, that long!) of fixing based on the data as I shared here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...sing-vitamin-c-developer.195941/#post-2622728

Likewise, I also learned that at least 40 mins of washing (4 changes of water, 10 mins each, semi stand) after hypoclear was required to get a negative residual hypo test. So that became my washing sequence.

As usual, do your own testing.

:Niranjan.

 

[pentaxuser]

I usually wash mine for 3 hours with a number of changes of water....

Is that a wash in the same water in a tray that gets changed 3 times in 3 hours It is not a 3 hour wash in running water or is it If it is in a tray with the same water then for how long out of the 3 hours do you stand and move the water around?

It sounds as if Andrew needs to keep washing future prints for a lot longer and as selenium wasn't mentioned by those who tone does this suggest that only very expensive toners such as gold and platinum palladium are the only ones that change the silver sufficiently

Sepia or tannic acid for instance is of limited or of no value in terms of extending longevity?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[nmp]

Is that a wash in the same water in a tray that gets changed 3 times in 3 hours It is not a 3 hour wash in running water or is it If it is in a tray with the same water then for how long out of the 3 hours do you stand and move the water around?

It sounds as if Andrew needs to keep washing future prints for a lot longer and as selenium wasn't mentioned by those who tone does this suggest that only very expensive toners such as gold and platinum palladium are the only ones that change the silver sufficiently

Sepia or tannic acid for instance is of limited or of no value in terms of extending longevity?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Tannic acid wouldn't do anything with silver. Sepia toning should in principal work and so would selenium toning, but in my experience (and others too or so I have seen) both of these also tend to bleach the print, with loss of Dmax as a result which I found unacceptable. So if you want to tone for longevity, gold is probably the gold standard.

 

[NedL]

Sounds like your

Oh, no doubt at all! I just meant to say that our views tend to be biased when we base ourselves on historic collections. It has implications for the conclusions we can draw, but I think the utility of thorough washing is uncontested.

Gotcha! Totally agree.

 

[NedL]

Is that a wash in the same water in a tray that gets changed 3 times in 3 hours It is not a 3 hour wash in running water or is it If it is in a tray with the same water then for how long out of the 3 hours do you stand and move the water around?
...

I might go a bit overboard with it, and I'm not trying to suggest my way is "the way" or anything like that. I first use running water for a minute or two, then swish it around and fill the tray maybe 10 times over the next few minutes, then I let it sit and change it every 10 or 15 minutes for the next 2 or 3 hours. If I happen to walk by it, I give it a little agitation.... but no I don't stand there for 3 hours!!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Made a Salt print from that windy, stormy day...

 

[Ben 4]

I really like the look of that print, which definitely suits the historic look of the columns and balustrade that frame the wind-blown branches!

 

[retina_restoration]

Made a Salt print from that windy, stormy day...

Apparently the salt you're using is giving off an enormous amount of ionizing electrons to get that much Cherenkov Radiation glow, Andy! Be careful!! ;-)

 

[PGum]

My experience with argyrotype ( finely divided silver formed on watercolour paper from FAC and silver sulfamate under UV light) is that I have not seen any noticeable change in framed works after 10 years. However a number of small test prints that were stacked unsealed in a drawer in the dark showed significant fading closer to the edges, mostly up to 3/4” only a couple of years after production (compare silver gelatin that would take decades). Why the edges? Possibly the higher natural airflow along the edges, and that air pollutants may exhaust themselves on the edge silver as they move inwards.

Compare silverware that is stored in a well sealed case and staying bright for years. In cities this is more pronounced with more pollutants. So, after proper washing, seal up the frame the best you can leaving some breathability for moisture, but no more. Not sure whether buffered paper, matt and backing would help to quench some of these pollutants, but its possible.