safe light

gone · Nov 7, 2021

Just get yourself an $8 red bulb from Freestyle and put it in a free standing floor lamp. That's all I've ever used, and it works great, even w/ the finicky Foma papers. Just grab the lamp and move it forward or backwards in regards to the enlarger to suit different papers.

Paul Howell · Nov 7, 2021

Just remembered that years ago I put a red bulb, got it at a local camera store, in my red Kodak safelight, there are few thin spots on the filter. Have not used the red in a while, was thinking about taking it down and leaving up just the OC light, a while back I ran of paper that recommended red rather than OC. But have a box of Xray 4X5, so kept it.

MattKing · Nov 7, 2021

Rick A said:
I have never encountered one of those colored "safe light" bulbs that are actually safe.

I've never had a problem with bulbs like that bought from a photo retailer.
I've experimented with coloured bulbs that came from other sources, but the experiments were generally not successful.
I'm currently using a 16 foot red LED rope light that is the best and brightest safe light I've ever used, but I would be hesitant at suggesting a beginner start with one of those, because experimenting with safe light alternatives really only makes sense if you have some meaningful darkroom experience. The Kodak safe light test that I use is rather intimidating for the newly initiated.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 7, 2021

Bezoar said:
why does every company making a safe light, give exacting details as to what it MIGHT be safe to use with,,, then end everythign with "we have no idea if it will be safe to use with any film in your dark room"

Ive been trying to find a safelight, working in absolute dark SUCKS

Four film development there's a little choice other than working with absolute darkness. For paper development a dark red Safelite is the best choice.

Donald Qualls · Nov 8, 2021

Rick A said:
I have never encountered one of those colored "safe light" bulbs that are actually safe.

I've got a red-coated incandescent safelight bulb (15W, I think, it's a small envelope on medium screw base) that I've used for years, safe time is at least ten minutes, probably more -- I've never detected any sign of fogging on multi-grade paper (Ilford and Freestyle brands). I didn't have it mounted to shine on the enlarger baseboard or developer tray, however; it was always diffused off a textured ceiling.

Jim Jones · Nov 8, 2021

MattKing said:
. . . The Kodak safe light test that I use is rather intimidating for the newly initiated.

Probably that Kokak safe light test is this one: https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/KODAK-A-Guide-to-Darkroom-Illumination-K-4.pdf. It is the best one I found online, and I've studied several. Improper safe lights are the cause of too many poor quality prints. The coin test and many others have shortcomings. Anyone who doesn't want to test his own safe light in his own darkroom can usually rely on safe lights designed and sold by photographic organizations when used according their instructions. Testing is better, and might give the photographer some insight into the use of flashing photographic paper to alter the exposure response curve.

MattKing · Nov 8, 2021

The test that Jim Jones links to is the one I use.
One of the reasons for using it even with safelights designed for the purpose sold by stores who should know what they are doing is that it helps you be sure that your placement of the safelight isn't causing a problem.
The difference between that test and the simple coin test arises from the fact that safelight problems are usually the result of cumulative exposure - safelight plus enlarger plus any unwanted extraneous light. It will show you if the three together are causing images to be fogged and/or having their contrast degraded.
It is really boring to do that test though!
If you are testing out something new, it doesn't hurt to first do a simple coin test, because if your safelight fails the coin test, it will fail the Kodak test too.

Donald Qualls · Nov 8, 2021

MattKing said:
if your safelight fails the coin test, it will fail the Kodak test too.

Exactly so. The coin test is "quick and dirty" -- the Kodak test is quantitative and takes into account levels of fog that will only affect regions exposed below the level of a visible tone.

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 8, 2021

I've got one of those big old darkroom safelights, that hang from the ceiling. Bought it many years ago at the annual camera swap in Coquitlam. It's amber. It has served me well with several papers, including x-ray films. I used to do a safelight test when I was heavily into silver gel papers. I shifted over to alt printing several years ago, so don't bother as much...

MattKing · Nov 8, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Exactly so. The coin test is "quick and dirty" -- the Kodak test is quantitative and takes into account levels of fog that will only affect regions exposed below the level of a visible tone.

It actually tests visible tones as well, because it reveals changes in tone and contrast due to the added light from the safelight.

faberryman · Nov 8, 2021

How about stringing some Christmas lights along the back of the sink. Would that work?

Donald Qualls · Nov 8, 2021

MattKing said:
It actually tests visible tones as well, because it reveals changes in tone and contrast due to the added light from the safelight.

Ah, I suppose it would -- preflash will affect values VIII and IX at levels an experienced eye can detect, as well as bringing level X up into IX.

Donald Qualls · Nov 8, 2021

faberryman said:
How about stringing some Christmas lights along the back of the sink. Would that work?

Depends on what wavelengths the Christmas lights emit. Lower cost red LEDs are reputed to have emission lines in green and blue that will fog printing paper and ortho materials. You can check (after a fashion) by using the surface of a commercial CD as a diffraction grating -- if you only see red, no trace of green or blue, it's probably worth taking the string into the darkroom to at least test.

faberryman · Nov 8, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Depends on what wavelengths the Christmas lights emit.

I asked in jest. I am surprised no one has mentioned night vision goggles.

Donald Qualls · Nov 8, 2021

faberryman said:
I am surprised no one has mentioned night vision goggles.

A decent safelight is a lot cheaper, and more helpful if you ever want to demonstrate darkroom techniques or have two people working in the darkroom at the same time.

MattKing · Nov 8, 2021

My 16 foot red rope LEDs were actually marketed as a Christmas item. And they pass the Kodak safelight test (when mounted near the (8 foot) ceiling)!
But I would never recommend them to someone who isn't experienced enough in a darkroom to be able to do that test comfortably, because there is too much chance that product bought now will differ from what I bought a few years ago.
I did, however, buy another set a couple of years ago and test them for friends, and that set also passed.

faberryman · Nov 8, 2021

Here are Kodak's recommendations:

https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/KODAK-A-Guide-to-Darkroom-Illumination-K-4.pdf

Doremus Scudder · Nov 8, 2021

If you want one safelight that works for all B&W papers, then go with red; Kodak 1A filters or equivalent. OC (amber) safelights are nice, but some papers are sensitive to the extra green they emit. Foma papers in particular need red safelights. The data sheet for whatever paper you have will tell you what safelight you need. Check on the Internet for safelight filter equivalents if there is confusion. E.g., a Kodak OC filter is similar (if not identical) to Ilford's 902 filter.

Check eBay, Craigslist, etc. for used safelights. Older safelights are low-tech, just make sure the filters aren't scratched or damaged.

FWIW, since I use Foma papers from time-to-time, I use red Kodak 1A filtration for everything. Arista.edu papers are made by Foma, so they likely need red, not amber, too.

There are good LED alternatives, but you need to inform yourself about paper spectral sensitivity, LED emission spectra, etc., etc. as well as learn how to do effective safelight testing in order to be sure these will work for you. If you don't feel like going through all of this, then just get a good-quality red safelight (Arista safelights should be fine) and use it for everything.

Make sure to follow the recommendations for distance and bulb wattage.

For B&W film, just get used to the dark.

Doremus

faberryman · Nov 8, 2021

michael_r said:
There are people who actually do that lol. The “modern” form of developing by inspection, apparently.

I don't understand why anyone would do something other than RTFM and get the correct safelight for the media he is working with.

MattKing · Nov 8, 2021

faberryman said:
I don't understand why anyone would do something other than RTFM and get the correct safelight for the media he is working with.

The funny thing is, if you are new to this, it is actually quite difficult to figure out which of the available options are the correct ones.
Emphasis on available.
For instance, the listings under "safelights" at Adorama: https://www.adorama.com/l/?searchinfo=safelights&sel=Item-Condition_New-Items

tballphoto · Nov 9, 2021

Description

The Arista Darkoom Safelight is suitable for tabletop or wall mount use. Use this Orange safelight for standard black and white photographic papers.

Also available in Red (Ortho Litho/Kodalith Type films and multigrade papers)

YET every single multigrade by Ilford is listed as "standard black and white photographic paper" in the bulleted section of the freestyle pages.. and its also the "variable contrast" "aka multi grade that this retailer claims needs RED filtering, although Ilford itself says the multigrade 4 uses an Orange filter

MattKing · Nov 9, 2021

For clarity, Multigrade is Ilford's trade name for variable contrast paper, although I expect others might have infringed on the trade mark.
Red safelights work with every type of paper on those lists.
Orange (actually amber) safelights are advantageous though if your paper is designed for them, because they make everything appear somewhat brighter and easy to see. Our eyesight is a bit better in that range.
The orange (actually amber) safelights will work with "standard" photographic papers, which include Ilford fixed grade and variable contrast/Multigrade papers. The amber safelights work as well with most other brands of papers too - both fixed grade and variable contrast papers
Some of the more exotic papers (Foma?) don't get along well with amber - but I wouldn't worry about them when starting out.

faberryman · Nov 9, 2021

Bezoar said:
Description

The Arista Darkoom Safelight is suitable for tabletop or wall mount use. Use this Orange safelight for standard black and white photographic papers.

Also available in Red (Ortho Litho/Kodalith Type films and multigrade papers)

YET every single multigrade by Ilford is listed as "standard black and white photographic paper" in the bulleted section of the freestyle pages.. and its also the "variable contrast" "aka multi grade that this retailer claims needs RED filtering, although Ilford itself says the multigrade 4 uses an Orange filter

Perhaps you could share with us exactly what film or paper you need a safelight for. Have you read the documentation for such media? What does it say?

Bill Burk · Nov 9, 2021

michael_r said:
There are people who actually do that. The “modern” form of developing by inspection, apparently.

Night vision goggles are very useful. Useful for loading film in tanks and holders. Useful for developing sheet film. Not necessarily by inspection, but reduces the klutz factor. Temperature compensated time by CompNtemp (but I am too lazy to change the slope/intercept for film vs paper).

This page from Kodak Filters helps illustrate why it’s ok to use Red instead of Amber if you feel like it. Red cuts more of the spectrum so is safer.

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