safe light

tballphoto · Nov 5, 2021

why does every company making a safe light, give exacting details as to what it MIGHT be safe to use with,,, then end everythign with "we have no idea if it will be safe to use with any film in your dark room"

Ive been trying to find a safelight, working in absolute dark SUCKS

Rick A · Nov 5, 2021

I process LF sheet film in total darkness, no big deal. I have been using a dark red safelight for printing since the early 60's without issues. Do not buy the red light bulbs that claim to be safe, buy a quality fixture with a good filter and no more than a 15 watt bulb for illumination. Even these safelights need to be at least one meter from your work area and open times under the light need to be minimized. There are some good quality LED lights that are safe for printing, but you will need to research the band width to stay in the safe zone.

Pieter12 · Nov 5, 2021

Bezoar said:
why does every company making a safe light, give exacting details as to what it MIGHT be safe to use with,,, then end everythign with "we have no idea if it will be safe to use with any film in your dark room"

Ive been trying to find a safelight, working in absolute dark SUCKS

There is no safelight that is safe with film. Unless you are using orthochromatic film.

Donald Qualls · Nov 5, 2021

Most films have no official safelight; those that do tend to recommend a very dark green safelight, very dim, for a few seconds only halfway through development.

That's a lot different from a safelight intended for printing, even on RA-4, never mind B&W paper.

bdial · Nov 5, 2021

It's because there is no reliable answer from the manufacturer's or vendor's point of view there are too many variable they don't have control over. A safelight isn't necessarily safe if it's too close to the materials you are working with, for example. Or, it might be safe in an "average" sized darkroom, but not in your converted closet. The only way to determine if the safelight is safe is to test it in your space with your materials, using whatever bulb you chose to put in it, and positioned where you decide. Then, based on that testing you may need to make adjustments by mounting it further from your work space, or using a lower wattage bulb or limiting the time that your materials are exposed, or whatever.

Paul Howell · Nov 5, 2021

That's true for paper, with film, dark green, 12 free way, very short, seconds. In old books you can find information on how to develop my inspection. While in college in the 60s I knew what were then old pros who developed by inspection, 8X10 and 5X7, with MF and 35mm don't think it works as well. I have a couple of packets of Ansco Pinakrotol Green for desensitizer when developing by inspection. Mix one pint 50% water 50% alcohol, mix stock with 1:10 water, soak film for 2 minutes, immerse film in developer, increase development time by 50% half way through using yellow green safe light 10 watt bulb, no closer than 3 feet to the safe life, view for 10 seconds very minute, judging negative density, more of an art than a science. If I can find a green filter than fits one of my safelights might give it a try with 4X5 in D76. No idea where I got the packets or how long I've had them, sealed in foil, don't know if they are any good after maybe 70 years.

wiltw · Nov 5, 2021

When film was 'orthochromatic' it was relatively insensitive to one color of light, which was the safelight color. The blue and green sensitivity enables the film to be handled in red safe-light and allows processing by inspection. But most black and whilte film emulsions changed to 'panchromatic' (sensitive to ALL colors of light) early in the 20th century (although orthochromatic films persisted half way into that century), and while folks sometimes attempt to use the dark green filter, you really are better off in total darkness (or a light tight film tank).

tballphoto · Nov 6, 2021

Its an annoying thing really,

At least can anyone point out what safe lights are safe with black and white printing paper?

tballphoto · Nov 6, 2021

Or do i simply go with the stuff sold by the company selling the paper?

ie if i get Arista branded multi grade paper, just get the Arista branded safe light

ie use Ilford paper, get the Ilford safelight

MattKing · Nov 6, 2021

Note that most safelights are safe with almost all darkroom printing papers, when the safelight is used properly.
The qualifying statement you refer to in your initial post is "we have no idea if it will be safe to use with any film in your dark room"
In other words, most safelights are okay for paper, not okay for almost all film.
If you are buying from a retailer, ask them whether the safelights they are selling have given problems with the paper they are selling. Or ask here.
The data sheets for Ilford paper will tell you which Ilford safelight is recommended. But lots of others work fine.
A fair number of us here have also had success re-purposing other light sources for safelight use, but that is harder for someone new to this to do until they have some experience.
Generally though, more problems occur with safelights because people use them too close to the paper.
I always try to bounce the ones I use off of a ceiling, to both increase the safelight to paper distance, and increase the usable spread of light.

tballphoto · Nov 6, 2021

Well Matt,

My quandry started because I have a bunch of that cheapo inkpress multigrade paper Adorama had a few months ago, backordered for 5 months, then boom, i get it without any indication from Adorama. And i have a package of Ilford Multrigrade that came with a few rolls of ilford film. Working on using the film as we speak..

Have tried printing with some of the really outdated paper that came with my enlarger, and have had alot of annoyance fumbling in the dark.

At the moment im leaning to "lowest cost resin coated multi grade" and im not looking to need to spend 50-80$ on a safe light for each brand of paper..

Pieter12 · Nov 6, 2021

Most lights marketed as photo safelights will work fine if they are used at a proper distance. Have you tried any or are you just complaining?

RalphLambrecht · Nov 6, 2021

Pieter12 said:
There is no safelight that is safe with film. Unless you are using orthochromatic film.

+1

Dan McGuire · Nov 6, 2021

Bezoar
Give these a try
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...equivalent-led-globe-bulb-27-lumens/440/1477/
I have the brightest darkroom that I have ever seen
No fogging on Ilford multigrade RC paper

Dan

mrosenlof · Nov 6, 2021

for B/W paper, the amber-color 'OC' filter in front of a 15 watt incandescent lamp should be fine for normal exposure and development times. Common Red safelight filters are OK also. There is no need to work in total darkness for B/W paper! These filters are fine for any brand of B/W paper. You can also find red lightbulbs that you screw into any standard fixture. They're fine too. Get one that is advertised as a safelight, not just a red light at the hardware store.

For most film (Panchromatic film) there is no safelight. Some people use Infrared night-vision systems.

Note that there is a discontinued paper called Panalure (a Kodak product) for making B/W prints from color negs. This is a panchromatic paper and requires total darkness. But you're unlikely to run across Panalure unless you're explicitly looking for it. Even then, you might not find it.

Paul Howell · Nov 6, 2021

I have a very old Kodak safelight, I test it every year by putting a strip of paper on the counter with the safelight on for around 15 minutes, then processing it to see if there any fog. If decide to buy a used safelight from Ebay or C list be sure and test it.

Rick A · Nov 6, 2021

mrosenlof said:
for B/W paper, the amber-color 'OC' filter in front of a 15 watt incandescent lamp should be fine for normal exposure and development times. Common Red safelight filters are OK also. There is no need to work in total darkness for B/W paper! These filters are fine for any brand of B/W paper. You can also find red lightbulbs that you screw into any standard fixture. They're fine too. Get one that is advertised as a safelight, not just a red light at the hardware store.

For most film (Panchromatic film) there is no safelight. Some people use Infrared night-vision systems.

Note that there is a discontinued paper called Panalure (a Kodak product) for making B/W prints from color negs. This is a panchromatic paper and requires total darkness. But you're unlikely to run across Panalure unless you're explicitly looking for it. Even then, you might not find it.

Not all B&W papers are safe with OC filters. Some of the papers I use require dark red filters. Make sure you read the paper manufacturers recommendations for safelights.

Donald Qualls · Nov 6, 2021

Bezoar said:
At least can anyone point out what safe lights are safe with black and white printing paper?

Short, simple answer: any red light that has no emission in green or blue will be safe with all modern B&W graded or multigrade papers as well as ortho films. Most graded papers and many multi-grade types are okay with amber safelights, such as LEDs emitting at about 690 nm -- again, as long as there's no emission in green or blue. As a bonus, if your materials are safe under amber, your darkroom will look much brighter for the same light emission, because your eye is much more sensitive to amber than to red.

There were once panchromatic B&W papers, such as Kodak's Panalure -- but AFAIK, none of those have been manufactured in twenty years or so. Panchro B&W papers are distinguished by box markings, either noting that they're panchromatic, or "open only in total darkness". There is no safelight for this material (even RA-4 color printing has a safelight, a pretty dim light at 680-690 nm -- low pressure sodium was used for this for years, with suitable attenuation, but this has been mostly replaced with LED at the same wavelength).

Paul Howell · Nov 6, 2021

I have never tested my red safelight to see if it safe with VC paper. I need to swap out the filter of my Kodak and do a test with VC paper.

MattKing · Nov 6, 2021

Bezoar said:
At the moment im leaning to "lowest cost resin coated multi grade" and im not looking to need to spend 50-80$ on a safe light for each brand of paper..

You won't have to.
Adorama is not likely to sell safelights that work for Ilford but not for their house brand.
If you had an Ilford compatible safelight (most are) and were considering something more exotic and harder to find like Slavich from Eastern Europe, I'd advise testing first.

bdial · Nov 6, 2021

I use red and amber (Kodak OC) safelights in my darkroom. If I am working with a paper that needs red, I just switch off the amber lights.

tballphoto · Nov 7, 2021

Fulton MX991/U Flashlight - Wikipedia with the genuine PR-6 bulb....

how bad would that .3 to 1 watt bulb be when used with the red filter lens that comes iwth the flashlight?

Or how about that light on its own, using the RED filter that came with my wonderful beseler enlarger?

MattKing · Nov 7, 2021

Bezoar said:
Fulton MX991/U Flashlight - Wikipedia with the genuine PR-6 bulb....

how bad would that .3 to 1 watt bulb be when used with the red filter lens that comes iwth the flashlight?

Or how about that light on its own, using the RED filter that came with my wonderful beseler enlarger?

No way of telling.
You mentioned Adorama. Try this one, screwed into a clamp on fixture with a switch.
https://www.adorama.com/dkslja.html
Use one of these fixtures, mounted high and pointing at the ceiling.

Rick A · Nov 7, 2021

MattKing said:
No way of telling.
You mentioned Adorama. Try this one, screwed into a clamp on fixture with a switch.
https://www.adorama.com/dkslja.html
Use one of these fixtures, mounted high and pointing at the ceiling.

I have never encountered one of those colored "safe light" bulbs that are actually safe.

Kino · Nov 7, 2021

If you allow sufficient time for your eyes to adapt, it takes very little light to work with orthochromatic materials in a darkroom.

There are no really safe, safe lights for panchromatic film; just ones that can be oh so briefly turned on in emergencies and are usually very dark green.

Don't use a smartphone into the darkroom (unfiltered); glance at it turned-on, and you'll kill your eye adaptation instantly. If you must use a smartphone in the darkroom, you'll need to put a safe light filter on that as well.

Check for used safe lights on Craigslist. Even if you have to buy a new filter, it is much cheaper than buying a totally new fixture. Along those lines, just buy the filter and build your own safe light; its not hard to do.

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