A few business courses will not be enough. Enroll in a business school and take as many courses as necessary, which may mean getting a degree. Skimping on any area of knowledge is "pennywise & pound foolish" or is it "gram smart & kilo stupid"?
Instead of a course that's meant to be an introduction to a particular aspect of business, it would make more sense to offer a series of workshops tailored to operating a small business based around some art practice. That could introduce those students that were interested to what sorts of things they can expect and what sorts of things they must do. And, of course, that also would be difficult to staff. But various professional artists could be approached to lead relevant discussions. But that would all be best left informal and not a degree requirement.
Offer wine and cheese, though, and attendance would bloom.
As if the art they produced, and all of the art that hangs in museums today were utterly without value.
If you do not have the business accumen to sell your work then you're of no value to society...is that it?
...and what about all of the work produced by the poets and novelist and composers who died in poverty because their work didn't get published in their lifetimes or wasn't wildly successful then but is now?
Where would we humans be without art?
If you want to get hired in this day and age with all its tremendous amount of competition for positions, it really helps not to be a one trick pony. The sharp kid working his way through a digital imagining program at UC Davis by sweeping our floors asked my advice and took it. So he made the effort to learn traditional illustration using pencil and pigments, and learned basic black and white film photography and darkroom printing, and had some nice examples of it. Then when he went out looking for work, he had samples of all three in his portfolio : digital imagery, film photography, and manual illustration. That demonstrated his VERSATILITY and ABILITY TO LEARN OTHER THINGS, and put him right at the head of the pack. His very first job in the Advertising Division of a Fortune 500 company paid him over 200K per yr.
Another fellow worked with us who was quite skilled in the digital methods; but it took him eight years just to get an entry level job into that career due to all the one-trick-pony competition out there. People move here from all over the country trying to get a foot in the door; but there's no guarantee. You need to somehow stand out. Lots of smart tech
students here at UCB have a double major, often in business or law. A young friend of mine who recently got his PhD
in Genetic Engineering just got hired by a Venture Capital company instead, at the financial end of Biotech. It's all interwoven.
Helping the artist sell his work actually is beneficial in the way you want.
No. I didn't say stop. I said embellish the program with courses that would help the graduates get a job in the field or help them create ones for themselves.
Maybe you should read the program's description again (emphasis mine):
The Bachelor of Fine Arts in Photography at Sacramento State is aimed at educating students in contemporary photographic methodologies and in the current situation of photography, its use and its communicative effects. The curriculum is designed to give students a broad exposure to not only the technologies, processes, and models of contemporary practice, but also to introduce them to the aesthetic, cultural, and ethical dialogues surround the use and role of photography in our society. The program does not aim to create, specifically, studio artists or commercial practitioners, but to give students the tools to act in a world where such models are concurrent and highly overlap. We wish our students to be adaptable in a changing landscape of photographic practice, and to be successful and responsible in their role shaping how and what images communicate.
Asking students to spend a whole semester taking business and accounting classes is not only absurd, its runs counter to the program's motives — i.e., not create a job for themselves but create a photographic practice that fits their aspirations, sensitivities and desires. To help them find themselves, in other words, which is what education is supposed to do.
Too bad this discussion end it up focussing on this, as there are many really interesting things stated in that description. Photography, as practice, is changing and evolving, and this seems to want to address these changes, with a real open view about them. It leaves the decision to the student, at the end, if he/she wants to be a fine arts photographer, documentary photographer, photo journalist, or commercial practitioner. And nothing prevents any of them of taking a two-week business crash-course after graduation, if they feel they need it.
I studied music at a (tax-payer funded) State University and the last thing I would have wanted was to have to spend time each week learning the wonderful intricacies of Excel formulas. Made a great living without such courses just fine.
....
Too bad this discussion end it up focusing on this...
It's a BFA, not a BS in photography.Why not? A few course on simple accounting, how to set up a small business, would be helpful for the photographer who can't find a job and needs to do something on their own like wedding photography.
How about courses on basic marketing and setting up a website? Luck, they'll have to get elsewhere.Well, if you are talking artists, and not commercial photographer (a confusion that is unfortunately pervasive in the thread, as the program aims for artists and not necessarily future commercial photographers), I can guarantee you that there isn't a single business course that would help the artist sell his work. Great artists have agents for that. Good to run-of-the-mill artists who want to sell their work need mostly to have a good website, basic marketing skills, and lots of luck, but even then, they won't, or rarely will (hence, luck) make a living out of it. Mediocre artists, well, you don't want to help them sell their works.
…The reason they again teach film is because it's become a fad recently. So they're playing to the young photographer he wants to be "in" and "with it". …
How about thinking about their real future? I suggested in a previous post, AI training. What's wrong with a course on AI programming. Make them valuable to photo employers. Give them tools to "hire" themselves. What courses would you suggest to make them more valuable?
Well, if you are talking artists, and not commercial photographer (a confusion that is unfortunately pervasive in the thread, as the program aims for artists and not necessarily future commercial photographers), I can guarantee you that there isn't a single business course that would help the artist sell his work. Great artists have agents for that. Good to run-of-the-mill artists who want to sell their work need mostly to have a good website, basic marketing skills, and lots of luck, but even then, they won't, or rarely will (hence, luck) make a living out of it. Mediocre artists, well, you don't want to help them sell their works.
Whether it be in high school or higher ed (I’ve taught in both) there are frequent calls to include this or that in one program or another as if those programs have empty slots they are looking to fill. When a new course is required, something else gets cut and every course has its supporters that don’t want to see them cut.
The kind of thing you are calling for does not even need a full semester course. It would be simpler to just hand every incoming freshman a copy of “Starting a Small Business for Dummies.”
BTW, when I decided to get my BFA I was only required to take the classes required by the art department, none of the general education courses, because I already have a masters degree. The exception were two college writing classes which I successfully challenged. However, there are a bunch of required short courses that I found a complete waste of my time, primarily due to my age, and I tried everything to get out of them, but to no avail as they blocked me from registering for my senior year until I completed them. They were provided online.
One was about personal financial responsibility and went over budgeting, borrowing, understanding income requirements. As someone who is retired and has only ever borrowed money once in my life (for my first home) I didn’t need to be counseled on car payments, student loans, rental agreements, etc. but there you are, I had to do it.
Another course was in sexual harassment, bullying, discrimination, and such.
The third one was in the issue of drugs and alcohol, especially at parties. I tried to get out of that one and told them that I don’t get invited to those parties but they made me take the course anyway.
To succeed in each course it’s necessary to pass a variety of multiple choice tests. I suppose that because of issues that young people have that these are probably beneficial but there was a bunch of time I’ll never get back.
Drexel's got it right. Why is government through its state colleges, encouraging youngsters, with no life experience to know better, to borrow $100,000 for a BFA? What are we doing as a society? The funny thing is it should be the private colleges like Drexel who offer BFA's. If you got the money, go pay for it and do it.It's a BFA, not a BS in photography.
BFA curriculum tend to be focused on the art education at hand with less requirements about other areas of study such as business. If you want to adjust the BFA curriculum to include mandatory business classes for instance, you have to choose other important classes to drop as you have only so many credits to offer for the degree. Since not all photography BFA candidates want to start a business (no surprise there whatsoever) that would be a hard sell for faculty and students alike.
Drexel for example has a BS in photography that includes Photography and Business (required), Photography Production (required), Print and Web Portfolio Development (required), and Marketing for Photographers (elective). They also offer a cooperative education assignment for students desiring professional experience before graduation.
But that's not a BFA. Drexel doesn't offer one.
People, let's steer this thread clear of more politics/policy, let alone religion. Thanks.
(I think we've never had this many reports on one thread within such a short timeframe!)
ergo ?
it literally has no value?
and artists are not productive members of society?
Another route towards a solution, which is perhaps just as challenging, but also just as necessary (in my view) is setting changes in motion in society that foster the arts.
I wouldn’t say “no one.” As a recent BFA graduate (a year ago), the same month I turned 70, I pursued the degree purely for personal growth, acquisition of knowledge, expansion of skill sets, and fun. While not the traditional student, I was not the only one in my category.
Drexel's got it right. Why is government through its state colleges, encouraging youngsters, with no life experience to know better, to borrow $100,000 for a BFA? What are we doing as a society?
When I got my engineering degree (graduated in 2007), we didn't have to take business courses per-se. At the time, my major had the highest average first-job-after-college salary of any college major, and the expectation was that graduates would get jobs working for someone else. That said we were required to take a course in business communications as well as one in professional ethics. And of course we had to take the usual general ed courses including courses in the humanities. I don't think it's weird to think that students majoring in the arts should be required to take courses in different topics that are relevant to their future career, and even some that aren't directly relevant. College should prepare one for a career, but it should also produce someone well-rounded, IMO.
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