RZ67 Mirror stuck. Won't cock. Seller scammed me.

alip_93 · May 27, 2016

Lesson learned! I thought just the fact he was listing it as 'used' and not 'spares or repair' that paypal would have my back but apparently not. Even with evidence of his fraud and with a professional camera repair quote as proof of the damage!

Anyway. Now that the lens is off I can see a bit more clearly as to what is going on with the mirror flap. Here's a video.

Any suggestions? I'm fairly sure the problem is with the gears by the cocking handle. Or possibly multiple problems...

BrianShaw · May 27, 2016

I'm surprised that they denied your claim. Before it was disassembled I thought you had an iron-clad case with some very incriminating evidence.

Old-N-Feeble · May 27, 2016

BrianShaw said:
I'm surprised that they denied your claim. Before it was disassembled I thought you had an iron-clad case with some very incriminating evidence.

Before it was disassembled... yes, he did have an iron-clad claim.

paul ron · May 27, 2016

my experiance with RB67s n a similar problem, most likely a forced camera, would have me first look at the none lever side mechanics for a gear shear pin driven by the cocking lever axel. that is part of the mirror system mechanics. the gears have to be aligned exactly right n there is an adjutment to take up wear slack at a few points in the system depending on how it behaves while cocking if this is where the damage was.

on this same side, inspect the mirror latch. it may be bent from a forced situation. the latch has some thin metal levers n rides a couple delrin bearings. after inspection, there are adjutments linked to the cocking lever system to fine tune the latch n mirror timing.

then id check the lever side for the latching lever spring. this spring is a heavy one n sometimes slips or the tip breaks if forced just right before the shear pin lets go. usually the shear pin goes first but not all the time.

as ive said, idont work on rzs so the mecanicals may be different.

paul ron · May 27, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
Before it was disassembled... yes, he did have an iron-clad claim.

should have never mounted the lens!

Old-N-Feeble · May 27, 2016

paul ron said:
should have never mounted the lens!

Paul, I don't think he could have known the camera wasn't properly cocking to accept the lens. However, (for eBay/PayPal to protect him) he should have taken it directly to a repairman for evaluation immediately after finding the problem. It's a darned shame that eBay/PayPal have absolutely ZERO common sense. It's just the way their rules are written. And it's a darned shame that most people aren't experienced regarding eBay/PayPal stoopiditee and their ass-inine rules.

The above stated, I've been on both sides of this issue. If one knows the rules and is indisputably in the right then 'usually' justice prevails.

paul ron · May 27, 2016

yeah i know very well whats sold on flea bay. i got alot of customers as a result of those too good to be true deals.

but still... the cameras not cocked, so why slap a lens on? you just have to see the mirror down to know its ready to go.

i really do feel for this fellow. i hope he can get it repaired.

alip_93 · May 27, 2016

Thanks Paul. There were a lot of electronics and fragile looking parts on the non-lever side in the way of the mirror mechanism so I didn't want to touch them.

Old-N-Feeble · May 27, 2016

paul ron said:
yeah i know very well whats sold on flea bay. i got alot of customers as a result of those too good to be true deals.

but still... the cameras not cocked, so why slap a lens on? you just have to see the mirror down to know its ready to go.

i really do feel for this fellow. i hope he can get it repaired.

Not any of my stuff. I have 100 percent feedback after 1200+ transactions.

paul ron · May 27, 2016

alip_93 said:
Thanks Paul. There were a lot of electronics and fragile looking parts on the non-lever side in the way of the mirror mechanism so I didn't want to touch them.

and thats why i wont toutch an rz... electronics!

paul ron · May 27, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
Not any of my stuff. I have 100 percent feedback after 1200+ transactions.

but the rotten few, your competitors who out price you are the thieves.

alip_93 · May 27, 2016

Thanks for all your help and advice everyone. It's gone midnight here in UK so I'm off to bed!

paul ron · May 27, 2016

tomorrow is a new adventure! good night

Old-N-Feeble · May 27, 2016

paul ron said:
but the rotten few, your competitors who out price you are the thieves.

Yes... one must avoid the thieves.

paul ron · May 28, 2016

Look what I found today... free RZ repair manual

https://www.mediafire.com/?yh5ffy8mw05ky

alip_93 · May 28, 2016

paul ron said:
Look what I found today... free RZ repair manual

https://www.mediafire.com/?yh5ffy8mw05ky

Thank you Paul. I've managed to get these off Ed Sawyer already so hopefully I can work out the issue. Paypal are still refusing to review the case which is ridiculous.

Tom Cross · May 28, 2016

Whenever I have had problems I have always gone through eBay not PayPal. eBay have always been very good.

Ian Grant · May 28, 2016

Tom Cross said:
Whenever I have had problems I have always gone through eBay not PayPal. eBay have always been very good.

It's more logical. It's the sellers listing on Ebay that's dishonest rather than the payment via Paypal.

Ian

bdial · May 28, 2016

Once you started with taking the camera apart, you accepted it as is.

paul ron · May 28, 2016

he seems like a handy fellow. perhaps this can be a good time to learn camera repair? from what ive seen in the manual, the linkage is the same as an rb with the exception of a few relays n sensors and a large pc board that probably comes out. repairing a problem like this isnt very difficult. hes just got to be better organized n a bit more patient.

the gears n linkage are very robust so its not brain sugery. the adjustments are simple most times screws in a slot to compensate for wear. as for parts... i doubt he would need any for this repair. it just may be a bent this or that n a sheer pin relacement. a broken spring is another story but being similar, a parts rb can be used.

dont give up yet! an education is never cheap.

.

onre · May 28, 2016

I completely encourage this adventure in camera repair. RZ is not that complex, after all. The electronics part can be figured out easily, it's not very complicated.

paul ron · May 28, 2016

also the problem is mechanical, not electronic.

Vonder · May 28, 2016

eBay and Paypal are asshole organizations. You gamble any time you use either one. They automate everything; it's unlikely a real person ever saw your case, and if one did, it was a half-English-literate Indian who couldn't really read it anyway and just looked for the markers like "not tested" and "used".

Leave him negative feedback but DO NOT include any link to a the photo.net post. Be sure you indicate he lied. Something like "I have proof that this seller lied." will be enough. Won't help you, but will damage this moron's future sales.

gone · May 28, 2016

Unfortunately you got shafted by paypal. I would have started w/ an eBay claim first, as they CLAIM that if a camera is listed as used it has to be working properly, dispite what is written in the listing regarding tested or untested.

Yes, paypal and eBay both suck. That's where the market is for a lot of gear though. While I have had some bad experiences w/ eBay sellers, by and large (maybe 3000 to 6 or 7 over the course of 15 years), nearly all of my transactions have gone off in a positive manner, or I have been able to have compromises agreed upon in the case of items not as described. The problems I have had came from sellers w/ perfect feedback, so no guarantees w/ that either. eBay will not always cover shipping monies either, so I won't buy from out of the country unless it's something trivial.

Time to get the camera fixed or sell it as-is for whatever you can get for it (which is what I would do rather than pouring more good money down a rat hole) and move on. Sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time through no fault of your own. I would put in the feedback that I had proof the seller knew of the problem when they listed it. I would also include a link since it's true, but feedback postings won't allow that.

summicron1 · May 28, 2016

Folks are sure being hard on this poor slob -- for a lot of us it is not always a given that the camera has to be cocked before you put the lens on -- lenses that have the shutters built into them are not all that common, so it is an easy mistake to make. Discussions of this and similar nature regarding Swedish cameras have pretty much convinced me of the wisdom of sticking to Leicas and Rolleiflexes.

Sounds as if this guy has bought himself a couple hundred dollars worth of education, if nothing else. Cheap at the price, and if he gets it working in the end he'll have a story to tell his grandkids, and that's gotta be worth something.

RZ67 Mirror stuck. Won't cock. Seller scammed me.

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