Rotary Processing

bmac · Oct 1, 2002

Hey there,

Just bought a beseler motor drive and Unicolor tanks. I am searching for a standard film / developer combo for this setup. I plan on using one type of film in both 220 & 4X5 formats for an upcoming project I am working on. Right now I am leaning towards Fp4+ in Rodinal 1+100 but am open to suggestions. Is anyone using this combo in a rotary system? Would HC110 or D76 be a better setup? I plan on doing a lot of testing before I commit to something, but would love to hear your ideas.

Jim Chinn · Oct 2, 2002

I process with a JOBO, but results should be similar. I Have found Xtol and HC110B to be the most consistent with rotoray processing for HP5 and FP4films. I have tried Rollo Pyro but have found I get better results with Pyro and LF in trays and 35mm and Pyro hand inverted.

I would set up a test protocol and try rodinal at 50 and 100 HC110B and Xtol at 1-1 and 1-2. the simplest test is find a scene with a 5 stop exposure range, meter for the shadows and bracket 3 shots one for mfg asa, one stop over and one stop under. That is three sheets for each developer (15 total). Process each group of three for normal developement. For a JOBO I reduce times by 10%-20% depending on the film used, due to the contrast enhancing effect of constant agitiation. Someone who uses your setup will have a more applicable suggetion.

Make some prints from each group and fine tune from there.

Testing can be tedious but it gives you a feel for the kind of negative each developer will produce and the kind of print you can get from that negative.

bmac · Oct 25, 2002

Just got my 6 reel Unicolor drum. It only does 35mm. How much solution per roll do I need to use?

Brian

Jim Chinn · Oct 25, 2002

I have always stuck with the standard 100ml of STOCK solution per 80sq inches of film. That is 100ml per 36 exposure roll. So the volume of the tank and number of rolls will determine how much dillution can be used. A six reel tank must hold at least 1200ml so you could use 1-1 with 6 reels, 1-2 with three etc. Also if you are using 24 exp rolls, you will have about the equivalent of 160 sq inches less film per 6 rolls as opposed to 6 36exp rolls.

These suggestions are for XTOL, D-76, HC110 etc. rodinal is a different animal. Everyone seems to have a different suggestion for minmum rodinal needed in a certain dillution. Check Unblinkingeye.com for an article that has some good suggestions for a starting point.

bmac · Nov 16, 2002

Just a quick update,

I processed 4 sheets of 4X5 FP4+ in ID11 this evening. I have got to say, this was possibly the most enjoyable film processing experience I have had in a long time! It was nice to kick back and listen to music while the uniroller did all the work! I still have a bit of fine tuning to do, but I can already tell this is going to be a good experience!

Brian

chrisl · Mar 8, 2003

Brian, I just got my Unidrum setup off ebay. So what film/developer and times did you end up using? Any problems to avoid?

I have to decide what film to try first and foremost...read a thread on LF forum, similar question but for 8x10 and most of the responses sugg using 400 speed film. Is this applicable to 4x5 as well? Like trix tmax400 or hp5 or even delta 400?

Thanks,

Chris

bmac · Mar 8, 2003

For now, I am using FP4 and HP5 with ID11 or D76 at about 25-30% less than posted times on digital truth. I have to take the time to retest now that I have a new digital thermometer and a Zone VI cold light for my enlarger. Biggest thing to look out for it be sure to presoak, I do it with all films now, and also watch out for bad tanks. About 50% of the ones I bought on Ebay have been junk, needing new seals, or totally cracked down the seam.

SteveGangi · Mar 8, 2003

I have been developing sheet FP4+ in D76 1:1 in the 8x10 Uniroller drums, with about 250 ml of developing solution. I took the base time of 11 minutes at 68 degrees F, and use about 15 percent less time, for about 9 - 1/2 minutes and. I've been doing this with no presoak.

bmac · Mar 8, 2003

So Chris, as you can see, it is going to take some testing. What works for me would produce flat negs for Steve, and what works for him would produce too high of contrast negs for me. Bottom line, do some testing.

chrisl · Mar 8, 2003

Ok, thanks for that information. I've always had an aversion to testing, but with film being so much more expensive, I think it'll make more pertinent real fast.

I've always presoaked my 35mm I guess cause that's the way I was taught.

Chris

SteveGangi · Mar 8, 2003

Yes, you have to decide which looks best to you. I've always preferred a more "contrasty" final print for some reason.

docholliday · Mar 9, 2003

I use a Jobo Autolab and CPP, with or without the presoak, no difference. Same time or 15% less, barely any noticable differences. So, my last couple of hundred rolls were done with the same time as hand agitation, and no presoak. Prints at grade 2.5 with nice contrast, deep blacks, pure whites, and good grain.

The presoak is more for temperature stablization than anything. The other arguement is that it allows the emulsion to swell and prevent any unevenness when developing. I've never noticed it. Of course, I don't use Koda-crap film, but it works with Acros, All ilford films, Agfa, etc.

I use the autolab more for C-41 and E-6, but I use the CPP for B&W. I threw away all my bessler drums after I got my Jobos. The besslers were so inconsistent and leaky that they were a headache to use after a while. For RA-4 and ciba, I use a Ilford CAP-40.

SteveGangi · Mar 9, 2003

Doc, temp stabilization makes sense. I wondered about the rest, since there were so many opinions on what did or didn't have an effect. Of course, so far I am only developing black and white, and so long as all my chemical jugs (and the film) are in the house, all the temps are the same. I don't know about emulsion swelling because I never really looked for any. This summer I'm trying color, since it will be 100 degrees F or there abouts anyway. Anyway, to the original poster, just try with/without presoak and -15/-25 percent on the times, and see which fits you best.

David Hall · Mar 10, 2003

When I got the Beseler motor and Expert, I did not presoak and I had bad streaking every time. Now I presoak with water and some metaborate and I have VERY even negatives. I use Rollo Pyro, if that makes a difference.

I wonder if there are different rotation speeds between the Jobo/Beseler combo and the Jobo/CPP kit that Doc uses, that makes it not necessary for him to pre-soak? Or maybe it's the developer/

dgh\

chrisl · Mar 10, 2003

Should I try on of the Pyro mixes..like the new wd2d plus pyro? Or just use D76 or HC110? I was using Rodinal when I was shooting apx25 and plusx, but am not sure if this would be wise with a rotary drum? I've ordered some FP4 to try out first. Just have to decide what developer now. I know Aggie's real up on pyro too. Too many choices lol

bmac · Mar 10, 2003

I have yet to Pyro, but I would say stay with D76 or ID11. 1:1

chrisl · Mar 11, 2003

Thanks Brian. Can you use these on Tmax films too or do I need to stick w. Tmax developer?..I think I have a roll or two of this around as well.

Thanks,
Chris

bmac · Mar 11, 2003

I never liked Tmax soup. I have had no prodlems using D76 and Hc110 with Tmax film.

Tom Duffy · Mar 11, 2003

chrisl:
I've been rotary processing in a jobo for 6 years. I've used HC-110, D76 1:1, and XTOL, all to good effect. Of the three, I like D76 1:1 best. Since you're new to rotary processing, I suggest you start as "plain vanilla" as possible, work out a solid technique and then have fun experimenting.

D76 or ID11 at 1:1 is very reliable and forgiving with most films. I particularly like Tri-x 320 or APX-100 in this developer. per your post, I have no experience with FP4. I presoak, though I'm not sure it's required. Jobo recommends no presoak if you use XTOL. I've used XTOL at 1:1, 1:2 and 1:3 with no presoak and it works fine.

the nice thing about sheet film is that you can expose several sheets identically, then vary the the development time (or even the developer!) easily and compare test prints easily.

I would avoid pryo in a rotary processor until you get good negs with a conventional developer. (too many variables - oxidation, agitation speed, stain, etc.) I second David Hall's recommendation that rollo pyro seems to work best in a rotary processor. I've tried WD2D+ and PMK in the jobo with bad result.

David Hall · Mar 11, 2003

Did I write a post that did not post? If I am missing something, I apologize for the redundancy. here was the thought...

Why not stick with your current developer (Rodinol?) and vary the pre-soak methods and solutions. That way your developer is a control and not a variable.

dgh

SteveGangi · Mar 11, 2003

TMax films work fine with D76. When I started using TMax, I got my starting data from John Sexton's website. I have been told that TMax sheet film does not go so well with TMax developer but rollfilm TMax does. I never tried it, I stuck with the D76.

chrisl · Mar 11, 2003

Thanks guys for the recommendations! I'll try D76 then. I wasn't going to use Rodinal David as I've never heard anyone using it/recommending Rodinal in a rotary..or if it was a good developer with FP4 and Tmax as these are new films to me in general. Whatever I use, I fully agree, sticking to basics at first is a very good idea.

Ed Sukach · Mar 11, 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chrisl @ Mar 11 2003, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thanks guys for the recommendations!  I'll try D76 then.  I wasn't going to use Rodinal David as I've never heard anyone using it/recommending Rodinal in a rotary..or if it was a good developer with FP4 and Tmax as these are new films to me in general.  Whatever I use, I fully agree, sticking to basics at first is a very good idea.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Uh... Rodinal is my developer of choice in my JOBO CPP-2. I have been using it at 1:50 for Agfa Pan 100 and 400, as well as Konica 750, Ilford, and recently, MACO 820, although I haven't really "wrung out" that combination yet.

I am confident of results with Rodinal at !:25 and 1:50, but I have not yet been successful with higher dilutions, say 1:75 or 1:100. Not really a "carved in stone" conclusion, I just haven't tried it that much at those ratios.

In the past, I've used Zonal Pros' Gamma Plus; Ilford's DDX, with P3200; D76; Tmax and, of course a host of C-41 and E-6 chemicals.

So far, I gues I am sort of "unusual" (no snickering, please). Although everything I've read claims that development should be reduced 10% - 15% due to "constant" agitation, I haven't found that to be so. I go, pretty much, with published time and temperature for "small tanks".

chrisl · Mar 11, 2003

Great to hear of your success with Rodinal Ed. I was using 1:25 with roll film, I'll experiment with the 1:50. Think I'm going to try this FP4 as well as Tri-x, do to old sentimental feelings and the prev. suggestions.

Tom, it's been along time since I learned about N developement. I now realize I have to break open a book and relearn a bit lol Good also to hear another pos. rec on D76. Sounds like I'll have to try both developers hehe

And Thanks Steve for the info on the Tmax. If I can't find any references to Rodinal and Tmax, I'll try the D76 route. ; It's a heck of alot cheaper at the very least than Tmax.

Speaking of testing...Any source on suggested testing procedures to tune in on a good resulting negative? I never really got that good in 35mm other than adjusting my exposure to give a decent contact print on gr 2.5. Suggested manufac times always seemed to give good results unless I badly exposed the film. Anyhow, that's how I did my old 35 work, not exactly rocket science but it worked. Now that we're talking a bit more for the film, I should find a good source for easy testing and be a bit more meticulous

Wow, it's great to hear so many informed suggestions! It helps alot!

bmac · Mar 12, 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chrisl @ Mar 11 2003, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Speaking of testing...Any source on suggested testing procedures to tune in on a good resulting negative? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'd say pick up Les McLean's book "Creative Black & White Photography". It is a great book, has detailed info on this subject, and heck, why not support a fellow Apuggie?!

Rotary Processing

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