Ross Yerkes Rare Camera Restoration

[David A. Goldfarb]

I don't see why the police should take an interest in the US, except insofar as they may keep an eye on hate groups. There's nothing illegal in the US about mailing political or religious propaganda in this manner, however distasteful it may be, as long as it doesn't incite violence. If he wants to alienate a portion of his customer base in this way, there's no law preventing it.

 

[benjiboy]

I have a question of curiosity for any Brit who might be so kind to satisfy. To preface, I never check the "remember me" box, because by so doing, many off-subject threads are hidden. If I log in to answer a post, it is some time before the system releases me, and this one caught my eye, as any repair thread does.
I ask my question with no opinion of my own expressed or implied. It's a simple free-standing question of English law, which is the basis of US law.
So here goes: If a Brit were to send a letter of social or political opinion as such; along with a customer's item, and you reported it to the police, what would happen? Would they come get him and prosecute, put his name on a "watchlist", would they seize his possessions or property, or what?
In the US, the po-po have got too many troublemakers to keep an eye on, they'd be overwhelmed if they had to go after every blabbermouth. I would have supposed in England it would largely be the same way.

No it isn't the same way, spreading racial hatred in Britain is a very serious crime, read these.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8144366.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8010537.stm

 

[MattKing]

No it isn't the same way, spreading racial hatred in Britain is a very serious crime, read these.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8144366.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8010537.stm

The critical point though is that there is a specific, well/narrowly defined offense that can be charged.

The onus on the crown would be to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the offending communication was squarely within the terms of the defined crime. Any doubt would be resolved in favour of the accused.

The classic discussions about legally prescribed "speech" use the example of falsely crying "fire" in a crowded theatre to illustrate how while the right to free speech is to be protected, that right isn't absolute.

In Canada (partly excepting Quebec), English law also formed the basis of our law, albeit English law that had evolved for about 90 years after the US started. We too have enacted anti-hate speech legislation. It is difficult to prove a charge laid under that legislation (as it should be) but successful prosecutions have occurred.

 

[benjiboy]

The critical point though is that there is a specific, well/narrowly defined offense that can be charged.

The onus on the crown would be to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the offending communication was squarely within the terms of the defined crime. Any doubt would be resolved in favour of the accused.

The classic discussions about legally prescribed "speech" use the example of falsely crying "fire" in a crowded theatre to illustrate how while the right to free speech is to be protected, that right isn't absolute.

In Canada (partly excepting Quebec), English law also formed the basis of our law, albeit English law that had evolved for about 90 years after the US started. We too have enacted anti-hate speech legislation. It is difficult to prove a charge laid under that legislation (as it should be) but successful prosecutions have occurred.

I'm not a lawyer Matt nor a religious person but I feel that respect for your fellow man whatever their race creed or colour and decency in ones behaviour to others under natural justice sometimes transcends the law, and for the law to ignore verbal or written racially abusive and highly offensive comments under the cloak of free speech I.M.O is wrong.

 

[Dismayed]

Yes, Yerkes has the right of free speech. And I have the right to take my business elsewhere. My only regret is that I had him work on one camera before I learned of his offensive views.

 

[aoresteen]

I have sent quite a few cameras & veiw camera lenses to Ross for repair over the years and he does excelent work at fair prices. He restored a 3.5 Rollieflex that was full of dirt, mold & fungus. Harry Fleenor said it was beyond repair and would not work on it. Afterwards, I sent it back to Harry for a Maxwell screen to be instlalled and Harry said it was in excelent shape.

If I get a track from Ross in the package I just toss it in the trash bin.

I would not hesitate to send him repair work in the future.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I wonder if he does such great work for the Goldsteins, Cohens and Nussbaums of the world?

 

[pdeeh]

See my point?

No.

I think you have a rather misty-eyed view of how he'll "grow out of it", by the way

 

[benjiboy]

No I don't "see your point" or see how anyone can be an apologist for this kind of racist bigotry, many people do difficult and lonely jobs without becoming rabid anti-Semites.

 

[f8&bthere]

Not apologizing for him. I think it's dumb too. I'm just a middle of the road guy. Political correctness is just as offensive as what it claims to counter. Call it just so much water running off this duck's back. Sticks and stones...

Jumping down someone's throat because they referred to you as Miss instead of Ms is an example of "political correctness".

What exactly is the "middle of the road" position on bigotry in general and antisemitism specifically?

 

[removed account4]

i totally agree ... i don't really think that is very controversial ... maybe annoying to someone who doesn't want to hear it,
... to me its about as controversial as someone saying "God Bless You" when you sneeze ...

i take back what i said and do not think the material posted is uncontroversial or as controversial as saying "god bless you" when someone sneezes.
the material posted is disgusting and i would never condone or "condone by sending work to someone" who includes that sort of propaganda in return packaging. i
have never used the repair person from this thread, and thought he was submitting main stream christian evangelical tracts, not hate ...

sorry for my post which i know was obviously offensive to some.

 

[qpoiz]

I owned a Kowa Six MM that had a badly scratched front lens element. I called Ross, had a nice conversation with the guy (in spanish), and less than a week later I had the front element in my mailbox.

We will spend our entire lives doing business with individuals and companies that have the some twisted, perverse, or strange views about life. Some of these will have actually engaged in questionable, unethical, or illegal activities. Anyone buy bananas from Chiquita? Well, they have funded (in part) the 60 year old war still taking place in my country (Colombia), however, I think it's best if we leave these debates and topics out of the medium format subforum.

I miss my Kowa

 

[mgb74]

Probably so, and do it just as well. Try to understand the guy's frustrations. He's just a frustrated guy like a lot of us trying to get a handle on understanding the cultural rot that is happening to America. Certainly not the first guy who pins blame on the Jews, but he'll move past that in his quest to understand the problem, and probably look back and wished he hadn't sent out all that. Pinning the blame on Jews has been done before in history, and has never worked out well for thousands of years. I wouldn't give it another thought.
(snip)

Your comment is possibly the most naive (I'm being generous here) thing I've seen on these pages. 6 million of my fellow Jews were exterminated in the 1940's because the Germans, Poles, and others pinned blame on the Jews. Didn't work out so well - at least for the Jews. So yes, I give it another thought.

Genocide (whether Jews, Kurds, Tutsi, Bosnian Muslims) begins with what you call frustration. History shows that rarely is this a passing phase in a quest for understanding. At best, the individuals who harbor these views are relatively harmless, but more and more often we find them acting on their depraved views.

We have a choice. We can encourage those with these views with our support, or discourage them by withholding support.

 

[eddie]

Probably so, and do it just as well. Try to understand the guy's frustrations. He's just a frustrated guy like a lot of us trying to get a handle on understanding the cultural rot that is happening to America. Certainly not the first guy who pins blame on the Jews, but he'll move past that in his quest to understand the problem, and probably look back and wished he hadn't sent out all that. Pinning the blame on Jews has been done before in history, and has never worked out well for thousands of years. I wouldn't give it another thought.

It's not frustration. It's ignorance. The last thing I'd want to do is give money to someone who will use it to finance his bigoted rants. I'd rather throw the camera away than play any part in his sort of hatred.
I also think, "I wouldn't give it another thought" is disturbing. It's because people don't give Anti-Semitism a second thought that it has begun to increase again.
Your post wasn't very well thought out.

 

[pdeeh]

I suppose you won't read this, but you really don't get it do you?

As if virulent racism is just a bit of "PC gone mad" daily mail nonsense to be shrugged off ...

beyond that, words fail me

 

[f8&bthere]

The person who posted scans was just as wrong doing so as the original sin. In this case, 2 wrongs did not add up to a right.

As for me I chimed in when I had already promised myself not to ever get sucked into these political discussions that seem to continually plague this board. But when people wax "politically correct", that is just as annoying as anything else.

I have never heard anyone try to claim that antisemitism was just a matter of "political" perspective. Well, that's not quite true. I have certainty read about others who made a similar argument during the first half of the last century but that didn't turn out very well for anyone involved, i.e pretty much the whole planet.

And your drawing a false equivalency between those decrying bigotry and antisemitism as mere "political correctness" is absolutely amazing.

 

[fotch]

I owned a Kowa Six MM that had a badly scratched front lens element. I called Ross, had a nice conversation with the guy (in spanish), and less than a week later I had the front element in my mailbox.

We will spend our entire lives doing business with individuals and companies that have the some twisted, perverse, or strange views about life. Some of these will have actually engaged in questionable, unethical, or illegal activities. Anyone buy bananas from Chiquita? Well, they have funded (in part) the 60 year old war still taking place in my country (Colombia), however, I think it's best if we leave these debates and topics out of the medium format subforum.

I miss my Kowa

A bit off topic, just want to say Welcome to APUG.

 

[removed account4]

I have never heard anyone try to claim that antisemitism was just a matter of "political" perspective. Well, that's not quite true. I have certainty read about others who made a similar argument during the first half of the last century but that didn't turn out very well for anyone involved, i.e pretty much the whole planet.

And your drawing a false equivalency between those decrying bigotry and antisemitism as mere "political correctness" is absolutely amazing.

people justify the mass murder of 2million people ( genocide ) using a political perspective ( happened 20+ years before the holocaust )
and to this day the country that did it doesn't acknowledge they even did it ... whatever ...
in the end people do what they do, they justify what they justify and it really doesn't matter to them what anyone else things or believes
( they got it wrong )

so this guy gets a little bad press on website for submitting bigoted literature to a few people bit deal...
there are plenty of people who will send cameras to him who have a pleasant experience ( he'll even speak spanish to them ! )
to replace the offended people .. it doesn't matter in the end ...

its too bad in 2014 religious persecution, bigotry,racism, prejudice, homophobia &c exist, one would have thought that by this time
humanity would have taken off its dirty clothes and put on clean clothes ... but i guess humans are humans ...
and all the -phobias and -isms are unfortunately just part of being human ...

 

[Dismayed]

I'm out of this discussion. If the guy had left off the first paragraph and just left it as his disappointment in the deterioration of American culture, he would've had enough of an uphill battle with that much alone these days.
This whole thread should never have deteriorated into what he did. The person who posted scans was just as wrong doing so as the original sin. In this case, 2 wrongs did not add up to a right.
As for me I chimed in when I had already promised myself not to ever get sucked into these political discussions that seem to continually plague this board. But when people wax "politically correct", that is just as annoying as anything else.
I don't even have a dog in this fight. So with that--sorry, guys.

I showed people exactly what Yerkes wrote. To say that this is as wrong as writing that crap is just ridiculous. To deny me my right to free speech to condemn racism is beyond disturbing.

 

[Texsport]

Ah, that's anti-religion, not racist, to be scientifically accurate!

What would be the genetic differentiating traits of a Jew?

How about someone who converted to the religion?

And BTW, the biggest racists are generally those to make the loudest racist claims!

Texsport

 

[ambaker]

Free speech is protected on our shores, hate speech is not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[benjiboy]

Free speech is enshrined in British law too, but inciting racial hatred either verbally or in writing is a serious crime

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

 

[removed account4]

another thread to put on ignore !

 

[analoguey]

another thread to put on ignore !

+1

 

[pdeeh]

And BTW, the biggest racists are generally those to make the loudest racist claims!

Evidence?