Ross 5" f/4 wide angle weirdness...

[bliorg]

'Afternoon, all -

Recently took possession of a Ross 5" f/4 lens marked "ROSS, LONDON", "5 IN", and "WIDE ANGLE". Not "XPRESS". Aperture also goes f/4 to f/32, which seems counter to everything I've found online (typical to f/11). Definitely plasmat, serial puts it squarely into WWII, so AM, though not marked. Bought it to put on a 5x7, not too concerned about movements or coverage, but kind of curious what I've got. Will be mounting it and seeing what kind of image it projects soon.

[

Thanks for any info/experiences.
Scott

 

[Dan Fromm]

I had an ex-MOD one of those lenses. Sharp, flary. According to the VM there were variants.

 

[bliorg]

Thanks, Dan. Glad to hear it's sharp. Have it mounted, and it looks like it will cover 5x7 satisfactorily. I've seen there are variants, just really haven't found one with these peculiarities. Proof of the pudding is in the eating; need to make an adapter for my Packard and test it out.

 

[Wolfram Malukker]

This is the lens from the US Navy Type 1 Torpedo Camera, and many of them are marked "AM" for Air Ministry. Some aren't marked that, though!

It will cover 5x7, and was used on the 2 1/4 x 7 1/4" frame in the torpedo camera. Most aren't coated, however B&J supposedly coated a bunch, and the post-war civilian versions are coated as well.

I now have three of the military model, which only has an aperture scale marked to F/16, but the aperture stop can be removed to allow up to F/32. The civilian model lenses don't have this shortened aperture scale and get the whole range from F/4 to F/32 right out of the box.

I am saving my pennies to send one of my lenses out to be coated, maybe one day.

 

[loccdor]

Very interesting to learn of this! An electric motorized panoramic camera from WW2.

 

[David Lindquist]

Back in the day Ansel Adams used the 5" Ross Wide Angle (Xpres). For example: https://www.nga.gov/artworks/66726-church-and-road-bodega-california
Taken circa 1953, it is included in his book Examples. Per this same book (another photograph), by 1956 he had gotten his 121 mm Super Angulon. Have a hunch the Ross didn't see much use after this acquisition.
David

 

[bliorg]

This is the lens from the US Navy Type 1 Torpedo Camera, and many of them are marked "AM" for Air Ministry. Some aren't marked that, though!

It will cover 5x7, and was used on the 2 1/4 x 7 1/4" frame in the torpedo camera. Most aren't coated, however B&J supposedly coated a bunch, and the post-war civilian versions are coated as well.

I now have three of the military model, which only has an aperture scale marked to F/16, but the aperture stop can be removed to allow up to F/32. The civilian model lenses don't have this shortened aperture scale and get the whole range from F/4 to F/32 right out of the box.

I am saving my pennies to send one of my lenses out to be coated, maybe one day.

Cool - thanks for the info. It's mounted and ready to go, Packard adapter fitted. Waiting for a little light now...

 

[bliorg]

Back in the day Ansel Adams used the 5" Ross Wide Angle (Xpres). For example: https://www.nga.gov/artworks/66726-church-and-road-bodega-california
Taken circa 1953, it is included in his book Examples. Per this same book (another photograph), by 1956 he had gotten his 121 mm Super Angulon. Have a hunch the Ross didn't see much use after this acquisition.
David

Interesting, didn't know that. Years ago, in my first foray into 5x7, I bought a 121 SA. Used it a bit, but mostly just for macro work. Priorities and subject availability (and pocketbook) have changed since then; I'm hopeful this fills a gap.

 

[Ian Grant]

During WWI & II all British military optical contracts were handled by Ross, and some lens manufacture was subcontracted.

The military A.M, Ross 5" f4 WA with the limited aperture range has a poor reputation, they are very inexpensive. The lens here is slightly different, but its SN indicate wartime manufacture.

This is the late 1945 coated version in the 1946 BJP Almanac.

.

During WWII Ross made the E.M.I, 5"f4 W.A. Expres, this was higher quality for the RAF, the aperture range was f4-f11, E.M.I. stands for Extra Marginal Illumination. These lenses have the serial number on the rear cell as well as the front. It's likely there's quite a difference in quality between the different version, compared to this one.

Ian

There

 

[bliorg]

Thanks for the interesting info, Ian. Like I said, waiting on the weather. I'll burn some film and see if it meets or exceeds "poor".

 

[David Lindquist]

Ian, do know if Ross sold these mounted in a shutter, particularly post-war? Thinking of the civilian market, someone like Ansel Adams.

David

 

[Ian Grant]

Yes

This is from the 1954 BJP Almanac.n That's the 2nd version of the Epsilon shutter, which was only made in #0 size, it's Compur/Copal compatible, but has no preview feature. The first Epsilon shutters were a simpler design, unreliable, Kodak Ltd modified them for the 203mm f7.7 Ektar.

Post WWII there were severe import restrictions here in the UK, you needed a special licence to import cameras and lenses, that included shutters, hence the Epsilon made by Ross. Restrictions were just being lifted in the early 1950s. AA's version might have been in a Compur shutter.

Ian

 

[David Lindquist]

Thank you!

David

 

[Ian Grant]

Kodak Ltd, in the UK, had quite strong ties with Ross, between WWI & II they offered different British lens options on their cameras, Ross usually being the top option, They also distributed Ross lenses in Australia & New Zealand.

It's also worth mentioning Kodak Ltd offered T.T.&H "Cooke" lenses on cameras in the UK between the wars as well, and for a few years Eastman Kodak distributed Cooke lenses in the US.

AA worked with Kodak, he used an Aviar, also a Cooke triple convertible XV, the latter probably in place of his older Turner Reich.

Ian

 

[David Lindquist]

My copy of "The American Annual of Photography 1933", copyright 1932, has an Eastman Kodak Stores Co. ad for "Two New Cooke Lenses". These were the Cooke Anastigmat f:6.3 Series XIV and the Cooke Convertible Anastigmat f:6.8. For some reason the latter is not being referred to as the Series XV. It does consist of a front component of 26 1/2 inch focal length and a rear component of 19 inch focal length. Focal length of the combined lens is 12 1/2 inches. Price mounted in an Ilex Universal shutter was $190. Ad notes the Eastman Kodak Stores Company is the sole distributor for the United States.

I don't know when Eastman Kodak Stores ceased to be, google didn't help.

Also don't know when Ansel Adams got his Cooke Convertible. Of course he had it by the fall of 1941, using it then to photograph "Moonrise, Hernandez. New Mexico."

David

 

[Ian Grant]

Here in the UK Kodak Ltd where also a big wholesale company, with 9 Professional stores.I have a 1941 catalogue, as well as 3 from the late 1950s and early 1960s, Essentially the 1941 catalogue only includes items from other companies not made by Kodak themselves, like Dallmeyer Ideal shutters, TP Roller blind, The Eyelid shutter, and Ademco dry mounting presses. For LF cameras they sell Ross, Cooke, and Dallmeyer lenses.

Other items will have been subcontracted, their Kodak Studio shutter is a sunken conversion lens board for their studio cameras, fitted with a rear mounted Dallmeyer shutter, made under licence from Packard. Only Kodak products are listed in the post WWII professional catalogues.

In the mid 1950s Kodak Ltd gave up their professional "shop front" stores, moving their wholesale side.to commercial premises. In Birmingham for instance, they moved from Corporation Street (retail premises) to an old factory unit in the Jewellery Quarter. Their retail premises were taken over by Camera House, a Birmingham retailer.

My copy of "The American Annual of Photography 1933", copyright 1932, has an Eastman Kodak Stores Co. ad for "Two New Cooke Lenses". These were the Cooke Anastigmat f:6.3 Series XIV and the Cooke Convertible Anastigmat f:6.8. For some reason the latter is not being referred to as the Series XV. It does consist of a front component of 26 1/2 inch focal length and a rear component of 19 inch focal length. Focal length of the combined lens is 12 1/2 inches. Price mounted in an Ilex Universal shutter was $190. Ad notes the Eastman Kodak Stores Company is the sole distributor for the United States.

I'd guess they just missed off the XV, or maybe it had yet to be named. The lens was only released in 1933, a year after the XIV.

Ian

 

[bliorg]

FWIW, I finally got to use this lens.

Yeah, it covers...

Okay, so I bought this lens for two reasons: 1. Close-up, macro-type shots. Which this was. I'm happy with the rendering and result. 2. For pre-sunrise/post-sunset long exposure seascapes. Haven't had that opportunity yet. It is clearly low contrast, and seems I do need to pull it apart further to de-haze it more, but I really like the rendering. Is it tack sharp? No. Is sharpness overrated? Sometimes. Am I excited for the rendering and signature of the lens? Absolutely. So far, this lens is doing exactly what I'd hoped for.

So, from my vast experience of exactly one exposure, for my purposes, I think this lens exceeds "poor". YMMV.