Rolling your own film

[3Dfan]

Links of interest:
http://rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps how load bulk.html
http://rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps how choose cassetes.html

 

[Snapshot]

Bulking loading saves me a lot of money. At least 50% of the cost of cassette film. In addition, I can vary the number of exposures on a roll. I would recommend the Alden bulk loader as one of the better varieties of loaders.

 

[fschifano]

I've been bulk loading for years, and don't intend to stop. Up until a couple of years ago I figure that I was saving anywhere from 40% to 50% per roll because I was able to get grey market Kodak films. Now, with recent film price increases and no more grey market films, that number is considerably less but still worth it.

Over the years I've accumulated a number of bulk loaders consisting of an almost equal number of Lloyd's and Alden 74 loaders. Both are good and both have advantages and disadvantages. The Alden 74's have a frame counter indicating exactly how many frames you've loaded into the cassette. They also have no felt light trap, relying instead on a more complex mechanical arrangement to insure light tightness. The Lloyd's loaders are pure simplicity. There is no frame counter, and the light trap is nothing more than an over sized version of the light trap on a 35mm cassette. There is a little chart embossed into the unit equating crank turns with frames loaded. The machine has exactly 1 moving part - ok two if you count the crank handle. Short of hitting it with a hammer, there is nothing to break or wear out. Neither has ever scratched my film. The felt light traps on the cassettes and the Lloyd's loaders can easily be kept clean with nothing more than a piece of low tack masking tape.

 

[pschauss]

I started bulk loading primarily so that I could shoot 12 exposures instead of 24 to a roll. At that time I was playing around with Russian cameras and lenses and a 12 shot roll was ideal for testing. Back when I could buy a roll of gray market Tri-X or Plus-X for $1.99 the price difference was not really worth the bother of working with bulk film except for the above convenience. When the gray market film supplies at B&H and Adorama dried up, the economics made more sense.

I use Watson loaders because they are inexpensive and have no light trap to potentially scratch the film. The down side is that the last three or four exposures on each roll are fogged so you have to pay attention to your film counter.

 

[jleeper]

Links of interest:
http://rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps how load bulk.html
http://rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps how choose cassetes.html

This says Foma 200 still comes in reusable cassetes? If that's still true, I'm going to order some from Freestyle.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The economics can get strange when gray market and imported film is involved. I used to bulkload quite a lot, and it was usually 50-60% cheaper that way, but for several years the only 35mm film I shoot much of is Provia, and bulk rolls in the U.S. have often been only slightly cheaper than the best price on preloaded rolls, so it hasn't been worth it to bulkload.

 

[tac]

I agree w/ fschifano; I've been bulk loading almost 30 years, used all sorts of loaders. I use Lloyd's exclusively since 1990- the frame-counter models and the fancy light trap models either broke, or scratched my film eventually. Lloyd's basically can't break, and has never once scratched.

Also, so as not to lose the last frame or two, I load in complete darkness- it's not that hard to do- cut your masking tape before you start and stick it on the edge of the table, keep blunt-nose scissors in your pocket, and disassembled cassettes in the other pocket. Test assemble the cassettes first, in daylight. Count your rotations of the crank and you'll soon get good at putting the correct number of frames on.

In the dark, when you assemble the cassette, after you put the end cap on, but before you wind on the film, give the end cap a spin; if it's not on properly, it'll pop off or otherwise make its improper seating known.

And don't forget to label the loader with what type of film it holds- one of mine still has my last 20 feet or so of Tech Pan.

 

[Fotohuis]

The financial advantage depends strongly of the type of film and country where you're located.
But your own assembled cartridge can have each length if and you want it till 40 exp. in one cassette.

Also some CN and slide Agfa film has been dumped (rest stock) on the European market for about Eur. 10,00 100ft/30,5m roll for the last months. If you like Optima or RSX film it's a last change for cheap photography

Talking about Tech Pan, Rollei just released their new ATP-V1 Technical Pan film:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bw_film-dev_combinations/discuss/72157602234971784/

Best regards,

Robert

 

[AgX]

In case you are considering bulk loading with a loader of those films who are said to be critical of lightpiping, you should pay attention to fogging of the last frames (the first length of filn strip you are handling). Make tests with your manner of loading, or do the first handling in the dark.

 

[Fotohuis]

Putting 40 exp. in a cassette and having 7x5 strips of negatives (35 = one archival 35mm sheet) the last 4-5 exposures with clear PET layer films is no problem at all, even when using a daylight loader system.

I you do not want to take care of this (frame counter), you have to load the first part in the dark.

This says Foma 200 still comes in reusable cassetes?

Yes, all Fomapan 35mm films have the non-drop "safety" cassettes. You can easily open them and use them several times for bulk film loading.
Sometimes my minilab is wondering why they find Agfa Optima (400) film in a Fomapan 400 cassette. But I put a C41 sticker on it then!

 

[Steve Roberts]

I've been thinking about getting into bulk film loading. What are the best film loaders and cartridges out there? Also, I shoot mainly Ilford Delta 400. This is availiable in bulk yes? How much cheaper does it actually work out. I'm thinking it's probably woth it. Any advice would be appeciated. Cheers.

Oh yes - I remember now - you can buy lengths of film already loaded into cassettes by the manufacturer. I'd forgotten that!

Seriously, if you have a good blackout facility, bulk film loading is the way to go. I've never owned a loader, just done it in the dark with a pair of scissors and bit of sticky tape already on the spool before I switch out the light. Load as much or as little as you need. In fact, keep a few cassettes loaded with different lengths standing by. Also, there are real bargains out there in bulk 35mm B&W (outdated, cine stock, etc.) that can leave you shooting 36 exps for as little as fifty of our English pence. As for lack of accurate frame numbers, it's a small price worth paying.

Steve

 

[tim_walls]

I'm definitely a fan of bulk loading - if nothing else, bulk rolls take up a lot less space in the freezer if you're laying down stock!


Fairly obviously, I keep my 'bulk' films (Provia (sadly no longer available in bulk roll in the UK, but I have some in the freezer,) TMax 100, HP5+) in bulk loaders, and buy canned for the stuff I use less frequently. I've no idea if it saves me any money, but it's definitely more convenient.


In terms of the loaders, I have one Alden/Watson type loader and I absolutely hate the damned thing. Faults include:

• It's too big.
• If you're not paying attention, you can wind the film into the spool without releasing the light trap, guaranteeing you'll scratch the film (OK, I only did this once, but it's still crap design.)
• The crank handle begs to snap off whenever you look at it.
• Most importantly - the very long path from the light trap to the cassette means you expose a ridiculous amount of film to light unnecessarily when you're attaching the end of the film to the spool.

Honestly, I've no idea why those horrible things have such a great reputation, other than nostalgia.

The much better bulk loaders that I have I think are most widely known as AP/Bobinquick, but they seem to be rebranded by whoever sells them - they look like this (ignore that price though - it's insane.) They are a far better design IMHO, much more failsafe, better build quality, and critically the film leader comes out of the lighttrap and practically directly into the cassette, so as long as you're careful you expose very little of the film to light.

 

[Michael W]

I have 4 bulk loaders on the go - one has Neopan 1600, another has Neopan 400, one with TMAX 400 & the last with Provia.
They are all Hansa brand which as the previous poster mentioned is the same design sold under brand names such as AP & Konica. Doing it this way definitely works out cheaper for me. About 50% off I reckon.

 

[Nick Zentena]

[*]Most importantly - the very long path from the light trap to the cassette means you expose a ridiculous amount of film to light unnecessarily when you're attaching the end of the film to the spool.
[/LIST]
Honestly, I've no idea why those horrible things have such a great reputation, other than nostalgia.
.

If a person cared they can avoid this. Attach the film with the lights off. Not exactly the hardest thing in the world. Close the thing up and away you go. Then turn off the lights. Open it. Cut the film. Close it. Shape your leader. Only the leader ends up exposed. Not worth it IMHO but easy enough to save the few frames.

Why do people like them? Well I first handled one in high school. No inscructions. No guidance. The same loaders had been used by the school for years. If you know high school kids you know they weren't exactly kindly treated. Yet they worked. Likely who ever owns them still has them working.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

30m of HP5 costs £35, and 18 rolls of 36 exp HP5costs £37.80.

Bulk loading film seems a lot of hassle for not very much saving. I think I'll stick with preloaded film

In comparison, in Canada 18 rolls would cost me 90$ whereas a can of tri-x costs me about 45$. And strangely enough, that tri-x was produced in England...

 

[tim_walls]

If a person cared they can avoid this. Attach the film with the lights off. Not exactly the hardest thing in the world. Close the thing up and away you go. Then turn off the lights. Open it. Cut the film. Close it. Shape your leader. Only the leader ends up exposed. Not worth it IMHO but easy enough to save the few frames.

Ummm; with the greatest of respect, if you have a darkroom already - which is what you require for this to work, after all 'the lights off' in an ordinary room is going to fog the film regardless - then you don't need a bulk loader.

Or, to put it another way, I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that a daylight film loader that is best used in a darkroom is a somewhat flawed product...

Why do people like them? Well I first handled one in high school.

Yeah; I think I said, "apart from nostalgia", didn't I?

 

[GeoffHill]

In comparison, in Canada 18 rolls would cost me 90$ whereas a can of tri-x costs me about 45$. And strangely enough, that tri-x was produced in England...

18 rolls would last me 2 months, so even if bulkload film was half that price, i don't think I'd do it to save £10 - £15 every 2 months.

However, the availability of 12 shot rolls would be very useful. I currently normally use 24exp carts rather than 36exp.

Perhaps I need to go MF, where 12 shots a roll is the norm.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've never had any fog problems with my Alden bulk loader.

I've also done it manually with two strips of tape on the wall to measure and a scissors. I was doing research in Poland in 1989 and found I could buy microfilm in bulk rolls, get cartridges from labs, and have a lab process it.

If you use used cartridges like that, inspect the light trap carefully. I had a thread fray off of one of them and it got caught in the shutter, disabling my Canon "New" F-1 for the last couple of weeks of my stay and requiring an expensive repair when I got home.

 

[tim_walls]

I've never had any fog problems with my Alden bulk loader.

Just to be clear, we're not talking about fogging of the film generally. My issue with those loaders is that from film trap to spindle the exposed length of film is excessively long - so you expose and waste more film than necessary while you're attaching film to spindle. (In other words, in a roll rolled using the Alden, the last frame or two of the roll are guaranteed to be wasted.)

By comparison, the AP-style loaders have a very short path from light trap to film can (as in, 1 or 2 millimetres) - I've never had a wasted frame or half-frame at the end of a roll using the AP-style loaders.

 

[Nick Zentena]

How much of the fogged film can you actually use? The distance from the spool to the film gate must be at least 1 frame and likely two. That means of the four or so frames that fogged you're only wasting a couple. For most people it's a non issue.

Of course we all were taught to load four extra frames so we don't even think about it.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Yeah; I think I said, "apart from nostalgia", didn't I?

I wouldn't call it nostalgia. I'd call it a time proven design. The other type of loaders have a history of scratching film. The Watson/Alden design doesn't. We're willing to give up those frames in return for no scratches.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Extra frames: Nice to have there potentially in case of some exciting action happening when you're on frame 35, so that's a case for loading in the dark, but in general, the economy of the extra frames is canceled out by the necessity of an extra contact sheet, unless you're shooting slides.

I can get 13 frames on a 120 roll with my Voigtlander Perkeo II, but unless I'm shooting slide film, I don't bother.

 

[tim_walls]

Extra frames: Nice to have there potentially in case of some exciting action happening when you're on frame 35, so that's a case for loading in the dark,

It's not the wasted film that annoys me per-se - although, I confess that when I hang a roll from that loader up to dry and see all that wasted space I do feel a little pang of resentment - it's more a question of certainty.

When I press the shutter release, I want to know I've got a photo on the film. Guaranteed; no questions asked. I don't want to have to worry about being towards the end of the film and maybe missing a shot I might never get again because of a crappy bulk loader.

And as I say, the case for loading in the dark is just absurd. I repeat, a daylight loader that you can't use in daylight is remarkably similar in concept to a chocolate teapot.

but in general, the economy of the extra frames is canceled out by the necessity of an extra contact sheet, unless you're shooting slides.

I shoot mostly slides .

I wouldn't call it nostalgia. I'd call it a time proven design. The other type of loaders have a history of scratching film.

That's interesting; are you sure you're referring to the same design as me? I don't have it in front of me, but I'm fairly sure the Bobinquick/AP has a separate light trap gate which is released by inserting the crank, and doesn't rely on a felt seal which could cause scratches. Certainly, I've never had any scratching problems from the APs at all.

The other thing the AP has never done is tear the sprocket holes with an absurdly crappy design of frame counter gearing, but I'll admit that feature may be unique to my rather battered Alden loader (which is why I didn't mention it earlier in my list of design flaws, before you start.)


Don't worry, I'm not attempting to steal your childhood memories of dancing through meadows with only an Alden loader for company. If the Alden works for you, or anyone else, then more power to you. I was just listing what I consider to be the design flaws of the Alden which aren't shared by the AP etc. in the interests of allowing other people to make an informed decision for themselves.

 

[pentaxuser]

Interestingly Firstcall in the U.K. recommends the AP/Bobinquick loader which it sells for £27.99 brand new. Its prices aren't generally the cheapest but it does cater for the colleges where bulk loading for possibly a classroom of student beginners may have attractions.

Generally if Firstcall recommend something it's usually because it is particularly suited to a high usage student markets where longevity and simplicity count.

Jessops used to sell a similar square type of loader as well. It may have been an AP although it was probably sold under a Jessops label. As said company seems to want to rid itself of all items analogue, it might be worth checking out.

pentaxuser

 

[Snapshot]

When I press the shutter release, I want to know I've got a photo on the film. Guaranteed; no questions asked. I don't want to have to worry about being towards the end of the film and maybe missing a shot I might never get again because of a crappy bulk loader

This is certainly a real issue. I remember missing a shot because I attempted to stretch and maximize my roll count. Now, I just rewind when I hit 36 frames.