Rollie 6008af trials and tribulations

[Christiaan Phleger]

I never liked the design of the Hy6. Especially the back.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Could you measure how far from either the film edge or the frame edge you can see the scratch?

After measuring again more accurately, the edge of the Teflon tape thing at the unhinged end of the clamshell is not really in the right place to cause the scratches on my film. I suspect that, whatever is causing my scratches is unrelated to the scratches you guys have.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I never liked the design of the Hy6. Especially the back.

In general, I think the Hy6 is an excellent design, but more fragile than other medium format cameras I've used (which admittedly isn't many). I don't have a problem with the design of the film back aside from the fact that I have to be careful when I close the clamshell to make sure I get it fully latched on both sides. I wish the latches had stiffer springs. I also wish the latches for the prism/hood were also stiffer. Similarly, I have to be careful to make sure the back is fully attached on both sides when mounting it on the camera body. Of course, these issues may be limited to my specific camera or just personal preferences, since I've not seen anyone else complaining about them.

 

[Pieter12]

In general, I think the Hy6 is an excellent design, but more fragile than other medium format cameras I've used (which admittedly isn't many). I don't have a problem with the design of the film back aside from the fact that I have to be careful when I close the clamshell to make sure I get it fully latched on both sides. I wish the latches had stiffer springs. I also wish the latches for the prism/hood were also stiffer. Similarly, I have to be careful to make sure the back is fully attached on both sides when mounting it on the camera body. Of course, these issues may be limited to my specific camera or just personal preferences, since I've not seen anyone else complaining about them.

I don't remove the back from the camera at all. I guess I might if I were to switch between digital and film, but there really aren't any digital backs available for the Hy6 that I can tell. I do feel the need to give the "door" a bit of a slam to make sure it is full closed or the slide won't open all the way. Same with the 6008 cameras.

 

[ic-racer]

The chance of random impurity or dirt causing the scratch in the same place on the film on all 3 magazines is very small.

My last roll was removed from the Hy6 6060 film magazine at frame #6, without exposing frame #6. There were no scratches on either frame #6 (blank) or frame #5, but frame #4 did have the scratch. This test was more confusing than helpful.

 

[Pieter12]

How did you advance the film to the end?

 

[ic-racer]

How did you advance the film to the end?

I just took it out in the dark and processed it.

If I can determine if the scratch comes before or after the frame is advanced into position, it would cut the number of potential sites in half.

 

[ic-racer]

Just realized Pieter12's negative shows the scratch on the opposite side of the frame compared to mine. The measurement from the edge is the same, so this suggests a symmetric structure. This should be so easy to find.

It does suggest again the structure shown in frame #21. But that is not an exact match to the measurement. Scratch in that place would scratch the film BEFORE it enters the film gate. I covered it with Teflon tape with no success.

Maybe re-test that area:

1) The film can wiggle back and forth in the channel maybe 2 mm and then the scratch might match up there
2) No scratch on the film in the film gate, but the scratch is intermittent, and does not always show on every frame
3) Maybe I mixed up my test rolls and or the teflon tape I placed did not cover the structure completely

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

These FUD threads make it seem like all Hy6 and 6008 cameras are fundamentally flawed. I've had exactly one problem with my camera and it was fixed by the factory in a 3 week period under warranty. It was just an insert that needed adjustment because of a frame spacing issue. I just emailed the factory and they gave me instructions on sending it in. Considering all the problems I'm having with my F6 that makes it currently unusable, along with the various other issues I've had with specialized, small production cameras *cough* never buy a Gibellini *cough*, my experience with the Hy6 has been stellar. I pick it up after weeks in the closet and it powers right up, focuses and exposes with a high degree of reliability. It makes chromes that are so sharp that sometimes feel I hardly need to step up to 4x5.

I can also speak for 2 other Hy6 owners who don't post on Photrio who love their cameras. One shoots weddings with his on film. He uses a 90˚ prism and the 80 AFD. He used to use the 80/2 but prefers the 80 AFD (same journey I went on). https://alexwphotography.com/rolleiflex-hy6-mod2-review/

As far as it's 'fragility', well I wouldn't want to drop it, or get it wet, or use it to pound nails. Same story as a Rollei TLR, Hasselblad H or V camera, Mamiya RZ or RB, Maniya 6 or 7...etc etc... I've hiked Acadia with the camera in a bag, I've shot editorial work with it. I've used it as a studio camera and a snapshot camera. What more do you want?

This is to say nothing of the Facebook groups for the 6000 series and general Rolleiflex group. Lots of happy users there too.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Just realized Pieter12's negative shows the scratch on the opposite side of the frame compared to mine. The measurement from the edge is the same, so this suggests a symmetric structure. This should be so easy to find.

It does suggest again the structure shown in frame #21. But that is not an exact match to the measurement. Scratch in that place would scratch the film BEFORE it enters the film gate. I covered it with Teflon tape with no success.

Maybe re-test that area:

1) The film can wiggle back and forth in the channel maybe 2 mm and then the scratch might match up there
2) No scratch on the film in the film gate, but the scratch is intermittent, and does not always show on every frame
3) Maybe I mixed up my test rolls and or the teflon tape I placed did not cover the structure completely

Well, now it's starting to sound like we may all be talking about the same problem after all. It is intermittent on mine as well. Doesn't affect every frame.

Pretty clever idea to remove the film mid roll to see if the scratch happens before or after entering the film gate.

 

[CJG]

These FUD threads make it seem like all Hy6 and 6008 cameras are fundamentally flawed. I've had exactly one problem with my camera and it was fixed by the factory in a 3 week period under warranty. It was just an insert that needed adjustment because of a frame spacing issue. I just emailed the factory and they gave me instructions on sending it in. Considering all the problems I'm having with my F6 that makes it currently unusable, along with the various other issues I've had with specialized, small production cameras *cough* never buy a Gibellini *cough*, my experience with the Hy6 has been stellar. I pick it up after weeks in the closet and it powers right up, focuses and exposes with a high degree of reliability. It makes chromes that are so sharp that sometimes feel I hardly need to step up to 4x5.

NE Photographic I for one didn't say my 6008af was flawed, or that I wasn't happy. I'm not sure yet/haven't used it enough yet. But it was (the lens) defective new out of he box which is something that never happened to me with 2 previous pro level MF SLR purchase.

Your chores certainty look impressive, I look forward to seeing what this camera can do

 

[ic-racer]

I made a mark with a Sharpie 19mm from the edge. This is the area of the magazine where the film passes AFTER exposure. It is formed with a trough so the film won't touch the housing. This is the area circled in the diagram in post #22 above.

However, I did see a couple burrs. I also took a piece of film and dragged it across here and got a scratch. I have smoothed them.
This did not make it go away. Most frames are OK but still the occasional scratch in the same 19mm location. So maybe this is not it? Maybe they need to be smoothed some more? Maybe keep looking.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I made a mark with a Sharpie 19mm from the edge. This is the area of the magazine where the film passes AFTER exposure. It is formed with a trough so the film won't touch the housing. This is the area circled in the diagram in post #22 above.

However, I did see a couple burrs. I also took a piece of film and dragged it across here and got a scratch. I have smoothed them.
This did not make it go away. Most frames are OK but still the occasional scratch in the same 19mm location. So maybe this is not it? Maybe they need to be smoothed some more? Maybe keep looking.
View attachment 264168

I don't see anything similar in that area on mine, but don't have a decent magnifier smalled enough to get in there. My loupe is too big, so I'm using a magnifying glass. If there is a slight irregularity in the surface, I am not sure I'd even see it. But, that has to be the most likely area for the scratch to be induced, especially if the problem is common to all three of our film backs. I don't have Teflon tape on the hinge side like you do, so it's unlikely that there could be a defect on that side capable of causing a similar scratch on all three backs.

I wonder if the insert shifts inside the clamshell when the film is advanced. Because of the spring, the insert is not loose inside the back when it's closed, but when the drive gear starts turning, it could be applying quite a bit of force. That force would be greater if the film take-up spool isn't rotating freely. I was thinking that the force may actually shift the insert slightly in the direction of the non-hinged side, possibly forcing the large roller and film up against the edge of the trough. Sounds far fetched, but I'm just tryin' to think of all possibilities here. Of course, the scratch would still need to be caused by some irregularity in the trough and that irregularity would have to be common to all three backs... Every time I think I might be on to something, I talk myself out of it.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I made a mark with a Sharpie 19mm from the edge. This is the area of the magazine where the film passes AFTER exposure. It is formed with a trough so the film won't touch the housing. This is the area circled in the diagram in post #22 above.

However, I did see a couple burrs. I also took a piece of film and dragged it across here and got a scratch. I have smoothed them.
This did not make it go away. Most frames are OK but still the occasional scratch in the same 19mm location. So maybe this is not it? Maybe they need to be smoothed some more? Maybe keep looking.

Cotton swab across area to see if it snags on a burr?

Fine sharpening stone to polish the surface?

 

[Pieter12]

I haven't gone over all the film I've shot since I got the Hy6, but I the emulsion scratch seems to occur more with one insert than another (I have two). Not sure what this means, but I will try to carve out some time to sit down with the negs, a light panel and a loupe to see if there is a pattern here. I have shot maybe 50 rolls since I got the Hy6 last June.

 

[GG12]

Durability and the Hy6: It does seem a bit more fragile than the robust 6008 - as the handle, battery door and small LED screen are vulnerable. That said, since 2010 mine has been up mountains, into Amazonian jungles, and on city streets. Had a couple of hiccups requiring resets, and went to the factory twice for speedy repairs - most recently last year to get a board replaced. Can't say enough about how prompt the service was.

Use with a digital back: first with Leaf AFI II 7, rotating sensor, integrated nicely with Hy6 small LED screen; now use Leaf Credo 60, easier tethering, modest live view (but easier to dial in lenses) and improved user experience. Working just fine.

 

[ic-racer]

Thanks for the input.