Rollie 6008af trials and tribulations

CJG · Jan 16, 2021

I was in the market for a new medium format camera and had a recent run of bad luck with old cameras. When Eric @ Rollie USA told me he had a new 6008af coming in I grabbed it. Seems the factory had found parts to build a new one. It wasn’t cheap, but was new and came from the factory with a warranty. I figured my camera reliability issues were over for a good decade.

Well I was getting inconsistent results at best both in terms of focus and exposure. In spite of using a wide range of cameras over my life I thought I was just getting used to a new camera that was very different from what I had been working with. I came to the conclusion it wasn’t me when I got a roll back that had widely varied exposures even for frames shot sequentially with the same exposure. This roll was carefully exposed and focused, on a tripod with mirror lock up. The lab said I was at least 8 stops over and they couldn’t get the colors right on the scans.

When i started doing some homework I could see when triggering the mirror lock up the lens wasn’t closing. I got a good picture of that I sent Eric.

Well the factory said they wanted their best tech to see this and he was out for a couple days. But this was over the Holidays and as far as I know we never got a response from the factory. We could of, but it was taking quite a while and Eric offered to send the lens to Key Camera for repair. Dave turned it around pretty quickly and all appears fine, though I haven’t put film through the camera yet.

Obviously this was more than disappointing on a new camera. I will say Eric could not have addressed this better and Dave really turned this around in very fast time.

Pieter12 · Jan 16, 2021

I have to say I have been disappointed with the factory's response, too. I bought a refurbished/updated Hy6 Mod2 body with a new film back and 2 inserts from Eric. I had issues with light leaks and spacing, and the back and inserts went back to Germany. However, there is still a light leak with one of the inserts that came back and there has been no word from Germany in months. Eric is great, and Dave Feely has done work on a number of the lenses I have and I am quite happy with his work. But the factory is a bit of a bummer for me.

ic-racer · Jan 16, 2021

My 6008AF, which is new old stock, does not work with AFD lenses. I'm pretty sure is designed to autofocus only with autofocus lenses with an aperture ring. What kind of lens are you using?

One way to check if a lens will work on the 6008AF is to use the mirror-up button. If the shutter stays open when the mirror goes up, then the lens will not work correctly.

on a tripod with mirror lock up. The lab said I was at least 8 stops over

Your exposure started as soon as you put the mirror up

ic-racer · Jan 16, 2021

Pieter12 said:
there is still a light leak .

I use foam from McMaster Carr. 1/32", from what I recall, it needs 3 pieces on each of the two corners near the hinge.

I have ten feet, I'll send you some if you want.

93375K602 Multipurpose Neoprene Foam Strip with Adhesive-Back, Medium, 3/16" Wide, 1/32" Thick, 10 Feet Long

ic-racer · Jan 16, 2021

Some of my results of swapping lenses between 6008i, 6008AF and Hy6:

Dave Krueger · Jan 16, 2021

I detected light leaks on my Hy6 film back as well. My 40mm shutter won't open at speeds above 1/125, so I had several blank frames which made it possible to see slight fogging that repeats every frame. My film back came with black tape in the corners by the hinge, but it wasn't foam. ic-racer, can you please post a close-up picture of how you placed the tape on yours?

[edit] I looked at my Hy6 again and noticed it does have some foam apparently intended to plug a small gap and the non-foam tape is on the inside of that gap. If that's the only place it leaks, then that would seem to be a fairly simple matter to resolve. I have foam/felt/velvet materials for replacing seals on my old cameras, so I should be able to find something that would work. Thanks to Pieter12 for mentioning the light leak issue.

Sorry, CJG, for the off-topic post. I hope everything works out with the lens for your 6008AF.

Pieter12 · Jan 16, 2021

Maybe we should start a new thread for the light leak issue...here is an image what I am experiencing. When I think about it, I really doubt it the insert is the problem, more likely the back. But it seems to happen more with a particular insert than the other.

CJG · Jan 16, 2021

No worries. What's concerning is the quality control here. In my time I've purchased a new Blad system (7 lenses, multiple bodies, backs, etc) which after some time sold and bought a new RZ67 system and 4 cameras, half a dozen backs, 14 lenses or so later never had an issue with a new piece of gear. I know spit happens....but?

ic-racer · Jan 16, 2021

That light leak will be easy to fix. With time, the foam rubber will come loose as the back is opened and closed to change film. The light is hitting the film on the frame prior to the one in the film gate. The unrolled film, with exposed emulsion, passes right by the hinge area before getting to the film gate.

I'm still trying to get rid of the scratch at 19mm from the right edge (with the film in the camera), that I see you have too.

Dave Krueger · Jan 16, 2021

CJG said:
No worries. What's concerning is the quality control here. In my time I've purchased a new Blad system (7 lenses, multiple bodies, backs, etc) which after some time sold and bought a new RZ67 system and 4 cameras, half a dozen backs, 14 lenses or so later never had an issue with a new piece of gear. I know spit happens....but?

I too have had very good luck buying new film cameras until just recently when I bought a Rollei Hy6 and a Leica M-A, both brand new with problems right out of the box. The sales volume of film cameras (and other film-only products) has fallen off so precipitously that manufacturing costs can no longer be adequately supported, necessitating cutbacks in expensive skilled labor, shortcuts in quality control, and less responsive customer service. I'm sure COVID exacerbated that. On top of that, as supply dwindles, prices are forced up.

Dave Krueger · Jan 16, 2021

ic-racer said:
That light leak will be easy to fix. With time, the foam rubber will come loose as the back is opened and closed to change film. The light is hitting the film on the frame prior to the one in the film gate. The unrolled film, with exposed emulsion, passes right by the hinge area before getting to the film gate.

I'm still trying to get rid of the scratch at 19mm from the right edge (with the film in the camera), that I see you have too.

I have the same fogging and same scratch that you have plus some additional light fogging. I have only seen the scratch on one roll, so I dismissed it as something I might have done in handling that roll. I don't see anything in the film back or insert that can cause a scratch like that.

One additional thing I have is a lot of scratching from the film rails, both before and after I adjusted the pressure plate. I don't see or feel any obvious cause. It's not in the picture area and isn't causing any film advance issues, but I may rub the rails with some rubbing compound or very fine sand paper to see if that gets rid of it. I checked negatives from my Rollei 3.5E and RB-67 and they don't have scratches like that, but their film rails also seem a little more polished (or more smoothly milled).

The foam rubber on one side of my back is starting to come loose, so I will fix that. Thanks for the heads up.

Kodachromeguy · Jan 16, 2021

Dave Krueger said:
necessitating cutbacks in expensive skilled labor, shortcuts in quality control, and less responsive customer service.

Many of the old-time skilled technicians and machinists may be retiring. Recall that when Nikon revived their S2 and SP rangefinder bodies, they had to bring some retired technicians back to the factory temporarily.

ic-racer · Jan 16, 2021

I have literally torn my film magazine apart looking for the source of the scratch. I track problems like this at work, so it is part of what I do for a living. But I still can't find the offending item causing the scratch. At this point I'm even considering Aliens from outer space or something poking out of the camera into the film channel.

Pieter12 · Jan 16, 2021

ic-racer said:
I have literally torn my film magazine apart looking for the source of the scratch. I track problems like this at work, so it is part of what I do for a living. But I still can't find the offending item causing the scratch. At this point I'm even considering Aliens from outer space or something poking out of the camera into the film channel.

Could it be the dark slide?

ic-racer · Jan 16, 2021

Pieter12 said:
Could it be the dark slide?

In a quantum physics model almost anything could be responsible at some level of probability.
If I do find the source, I could write it up in a novel on par with Feynman's account of the Shuttle disaster...I'm really stumped.

Pieter12 · Jan 16, 2021

It could even be the Dark Side!

Dave Krueger · Jan 16, 2021

Pieter12 said:
It could even be the Dark Side!

LMAO! I almost misread this.

Dave Krueger · Jan 16, 2021

ic-racer said:
I have literally torn my film magazine apart looking for the source of the scratch. I track problems like this at work, so it is part of what I do for a living. But I still can't find the offending item causing the scratch. At this point I'm even considering Aliens from outer space or something poking out of the camera into the film channel.

Well, I measured it in multiple places and mine is actually 19.7 mm from the OTHER edge of the film (emulsion side). Also, the scratch is not constant for the entire length of the film. It disappears and comes back. It is noticeable without a loupe, but it is a very fine scratch.

This makes me think it might have something to do with that bluish Teflon tape thingy at the top (non-hinge) side of the back. The ends of that blue Teflon are about 19mm from the edges of the film, but I don't see how the film comes into contact with it. On the other hand, there must be some reason why they put that thing there.

Pieter12 · Jan 17, 2021

That tape reminds me of the tape that is sometimes used to protect polished surfaces on new items. Could it be that it needs to be removed?

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2021

The scratch can show a slight variation from the edge of the film about 1.5mm, in my case, is always the same distance from the edge of the projected frame border. This proves the scratch originates in the camera.
My rollers, on 8x examination, are covered with imperfections, but nothing that matches the scratch.
There are numerous items that might be culprits, but nothing matches the exact measurement. I put a lot of additional teflon tape covering the interior but the scratch persists.
I replaced the Teflon tape on which the lower roller rides in my magazine and the scratch stayed in the same location, so it was not an imperfection on the original Teflon tape.
With the Teflon tape removed, the roller forces the film agains the rough aluminum casing causing hundreds of scratches.

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2021

The sharp edge in the circle ALMOST matches the measurement from the frame edge, but teflon tape covering that area did not make the scratch go away.

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2021

I thought I saw a burr with 8x loupe in the area indicated with the red circle, at the correct measured area to cause the scratch. I was almost certain this fixed it, but recent rolls of film still show the scratch. Also, it would be unusual for a random burr to be in the same place on multiple magazines.

Dave Krueger · Jan 17, 2021

ic-racer, thanks for all the pictures and the explanation of what you have tried up to now.

The Teflon tape thing at the top is the only thing that I can see that could account for a similar scratch on both the left and right side of the film at about the same distance from the edge, although that admittedly seems pretty far fetched. The Teflon tape seems too smooth even at the edges to induce scratches, assuming the film even touches it. Since I don't have the problem on multiple rolls, it could be that my problem was induced by a grain of dust trapped somewhere in the film path, which may now be gone. I won't know for sure until I shoot another roll. The rollers feel smooth to me, but I didn't examine them under magnification. I kind of dismissed the rollers as a source since they roll.

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2021

Dave Krueger said:
ic-racer, thanks for all the pictures and the explanation of what you have tried up to now.

The Teflon tape thing at the top is the only thing that I can see that could account for a similar scratch on both the left and right side of the film at about the same distance from the edge, although that admittedly seems pretty far fetched. The Teflon tape seems too smooth even at the edges to induce scratches, assuming the film even touches it. Since I don't have the problem on multiple rolls, it could be that my problem was induced by a grain of dust trapped somewhere in the film path, which may now be gone. I won't know for sure until I shoot another roll. The rollers feel smooth to me, but I didn't examine them under magnification. I kind of dismissed the rollers as a source since they roll.

Could you measure how far from either the film edge or the frame edge you can see the scratch?

Dave Krueger · Jan 17, 2021

ic-racer said:
Could you measure how far from either the film edge or the frame edge you can see the scratch?

The scratch is 19.7 mm from the right edge of the film with the film oriented with the top of the scene pointing up and the emulsion side down (ie: the image matches the original scene as viewed with the eye as you would orient it for a contact print). For Kodak film, the film name is on the left and frame numbers on the right.

Rollie 6008af trials and tribulations

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