Value is relative to quality, and with cameras of this age you need to factor in the cost of a C.L.A. into the price if you need a reliable picture taking machine, otherwise it's like buying a 30 year + car and expecting to take it on the highway without being serviced.
Rolleiflex vs Yashicamat 124G (Or Others)
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Instead of a YashicaMat 124(G) I'd choose a Rolleicord V. They are appr. similar in value. Rolleicord's Xenar lens is in my own view slightly better than YashicaMat's Tessar clone which flares easily in landscapes. I've used both cameras side by side and like 'Cord's lens a lot more. The other thing is that Yashica 124G is packed with gooeying light seals when Rolleicord V has absolutely none. Rolliecord is also lighter and slightly more compact. One big plus for YashicaMat is its bright focus screen. Most older TLR cameras need a new focus screen but YashicaMat is not one of them. Both cameras take Bay-1 size filters, or you can do like I do and get a cheap Bay-1-to-52mm adapter. It's a joy to use my Nikon size filters and a Nikon 52mm hood with my Rolleicord V.
The few Yashicas I've owned produced good images, but were less reliable than I'd expect a Rollei to be. The older Yashica D or 635 with a Yashinon lens may be a better value than a 124G with its near cult status.
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hi dan
back in my student days i had a yaschicamat 124G and loved it. i took some great photographs with it
but eventually ( i ) was broke and sold the camera. now 25 years later i am using a rolleicord and enjoy that too.
either one ( or the others ) should treat you well ... just get a trusted repair guy to do a cla and get it tuned-up once in a while.
have fun
john
ps. i agree, lugging around the big stuff can be a pain
back in my student days i had a yaschicamat 124G and loved it. i took some great photographs with it
but eventually ( i ) was broke and sold the camera. now 25 years later i am using a rolleicord and enjoy that too.
either one ( or the others ) should treat you well ... just get a trusted repair guy to do a cla and get it tuned-up once in a while.
have fun
john
ps. i agree, lugging around the big stuff can be a pain
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To expand on the previous post...
Winding the film on the 124G sounds and feels gritty, on the Rolliflex is smooth as silk. The metal on the Rolliflex seems thicker and the camera more durable all around. The Rolleiflex has an eye level viewfinder by the means of a 45-degree mirror, I never used it yet, but it's nice to know it's there. The Rolleiflex is definately better made. There is no shutter damage if you use the selftimer in "M" mode with the Rolleiflex. This is a BIG plus since I use flashbulbs. From what I've seen there is a better resale value on the Rollei. The Rolleiflex looks better IMO. You can beat someone to death with the Rolleiflex and use it take photos of their dead body afterwards. Did I mention durable?
B&H has a Rolleicord V for $250 FYI, I stopped in and took a look at it yesterday and it's in nice shape.
Winding the film on the 124G sounds and feels gritty, on the Rolliflex is smooth as silk. The metal on the Rolliflex seems thicker and the camera more durable all around. The Rolleiflex has an eye level viewfinder by the means of a 45-degree mirror, I never used it yet, but it's nice to know it's there. The Rolleiflex is definately better made. There is no shutter damage if you use the selftimer in "M" mode with the Rolleiflex. This is a BIG plus since I use flashbulbs. From what I've seen there is a better resale value on the Rollei. The Rolleiflex looks better IMO. You can beat someone to death with the Rolleiflex and use it take photos of their dead body afterwards. Did I mention durable?
B&H has a Rolleicord V for $250 FYI, I stopped in and took a look at it yesterday and it's in nice shape.
Hi Ian
If you have not got a baffle you need one. Don't believe me open the back and set the shutter to B, if there is a flash off the bottom of the body between lens and film roller...
Some Rolliflex have set of baffles like bellows on a folder ditto Microflex, the Yashica mats don't sometimes the late ones do.
Postcard material and black board material is cheap
I have a YashicaMat that has done me good service for many years. It acts as my backup travel camera these days. I used a Rolleicord when I was in college, but not enough to form any strong opinions about it.
The Rollei cameras ought to be slightly better built, but against that they may have seen more use in professional hands. Like any mechanical device, their history and maintenance is going to be most important as they get older. Each example has to stand up for itself.
The Rollei cameras ought to be slightly better built, but against that they may have seen more use in professional hands. Like any mechanical device, their history and maintenance is going to be most important as they get older. Each example has to stand up for itself.
I had the same problem with flare with the Yashicas I have used. They flare because of internal light reflections between the rear of the lens and the film plane, not the lens itself as some people claim. This can easily be remedied by flocking the internal chamber. The difference after flocking is well worth the effort.
Obviously a lens shade should always be used even after flocking the camera.
Chris
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Comparing a Yashicamat to a $1000 Rolleiflex is just ridiculous! I have about six "standard-type" Rolleiflexes and 'cords that I picked up through the years when I saw them cheap including $150 for 2.8 E Planar picked up in a small alley shop in Beijing and 3.5E3 with a Xenotar lens that I got from the Rollei email list for $125, yes both of them not in very good aesthetic condition but both of them, after a CLA, are in perfect working order. So you can get them cheap if you have patience. Most I ever paid for a basic, nicer "working" one was $550 for 2.8E2 Planar and I've seen Automats and MX versions sell here for $350-450 or so (which frankly for a hun' or so more I'd much rather have a C or E). If you don't have patience and have limited funds right now then you can get a Rolleicord V or III for $150-250.
Yashicamats are not bad cameras and have their fans, others have noted the differences. Anywhere near the same price it's Rollei hands down for workmanship, build, quality of parts and frankly lens performance most of the time...
Point is unless you must have a Rolleiflex F then you can get one for much, much less than $1000....and they are built to last.
Yashicamats are not bad cameras and have their fans, others have noted the differences. Anywhere near the same price it's Rollei hands down for workmanship, build, quality of parts and frankly lens performance most of the time...
Point is unless you must have a Rolleiflex F then you can get one for much, much less than $1000....and they are built to last.
I used a 124G quite a bit, it won't let you down. At f:8 you'll have a hard time telling what camera made the picture, it's a very good camera.
Most of the 124s have baffles which prevent this some Rollis have the same problem. I admit I did not think of flock paper.
Some specifics on flocking the interior of a Yashica-Mat-
http://www.flickr.com/groups/yashica_tlr/discuss/72157622734630140/
I used a flocking material made for the interior of telescope tubes. The same material is also useful as a light seal in a variety of cameras, so buying a sheet isn't a huge waste-
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm
I have noticed that the paint Yashica used on the interior of older 'Mats is not very flat. Most camera makers used a paint with less reflectivity so flare from internal reflections is less. Technically ANY flare will reduce contrast, but whether it will be seen or not is another issue. Telescope people are working with very small amounts of light so every little bit helps them.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/yashica_tlr/discuss/72157622734630140/
I used a flocking material made for the interior of telescope tubes. The same material is also useful as a light seal in a variety of cameras, so buying a sheet isn't a huge waste-
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm
I have noticed that the paint Yashica used on the interior of older 'Mats is not very flat. Most camera makers used a paint with less reflectivity so flare from internal reflections is less. Technically ANY flare will reduce contrast, but whether it will be seen or not is another issue. Telescope people are working with very small amounts of light so every little bit helps them.
I'll check out my Yashicamat next time I'm in Turkey, flare has only been an issue a couple of times in 6 years, it only occurs in poor light when the lens is used fairly wide open and is obviously internal reflections. I have some excellent matt black paint so remedial action is not a problem
I've found that some paints and particularly the insides of bellows get lighter with age and I usually freshen them up with the matt paint,
Ian
The yashicamat is the most common Rolleiflex alternative but not necesseraly the best. The advantage of the Rolleiflex/Rolleicord lies not in the lens, a good Yashinon is a decent lens with near Rollei quality, but in the little details like parallax correction in the viewfinder which is a great tool. The being said my favourite Rollei alternative comes from Zeiss Ikon the Ikoflex they are usually much cheaper than Rolleis but the Tessar versions of the Ikoflex of the same vintage have the same lens as the Rollei. Build quality is on par with Rollei.
Another super rare option is the Voigtländer Superb with the Skopar lens (the heliar version is super expensive) the Superb is only available with uncoated lenses and is a prewar design. What makes the Superb so special is the complete elimination of parallax error by moving the viewing lens.
The cheapest option are the Meopta Flexaret Cameras. The last versions of the Meopta Flexarets have good Tessar type lenses (Meopta was a very good optical company even by western standards) are cheap and nobody seems to want them since they were made behind the iron curtain.
Another super rare option is the Voigtländer Superb with the Skopar lens (the heliar version is super expensive) the Superb is only available with uncoated lenses and is a prewar design. What makes the Superb so special is the complete elimination of parallax error by moving the viewing lens.
The cheapest option are the Meopta Flexaret Cameras. The last versions of the Meopta Flexarets have good Tessar type lenses (Meopta was a very good optical company even by western standards) are cheap and nobody seems to want them since they were made behind the iron curtain.
Tried matt (blackboard) paint it was not effective enough but good quality flock or a simple baffle like late 124s have makes a big difference.
OP
OP
What about a Rollei 3.5e for 700ish... Too high a value? Seems like ever freaking site I find has a whole range of accepted "values". I find this stuff too confusing. I'm not a patient guy, I feel like stumbling on a low end eBay auction just doesn't happen often
If you have any interest in Rolleiflex, and this is your first dance, then I strongly recommend this little buying guide from Harry Fleenor. http://www.rolleirepairs.com/BuyRollei.html
It will cost you $10 for the pdf download but it will answer many, many questions. I know that it did for me.
It will cost you $10 for the pdf download but it will answer many, many questions. I know that it did for me.
If it's had a recent documented CLA from a known Rollei repair guy and overall in decent shape, particularly the lens, that's not a bad price at all. If it's just a camera that the seller says "shutter speeds sound good" and they have no idea when it was last serviced I'd say it's over priced.
Most of them have no idea about the condition unless if you buy a camera here or from a reputed stores.
I normally ask about the photo of the lens, if possible one with flashlight shined on other side.
Rest will depend on the skill of the service man. Yes, some money to spend but you have joy of shooting for next 15-20 years.
I normally ask about the photo of the lens, if possible one with flashlight shined on other side.
Rest will depend on the skill of the service man. Yes, some money to spend but you have joy of shooting for next 15-20 years.
Either brand can be an awesome camera. I've got a yashica TLR and a couple Rolleiflex automat tessars. No functional complaints other than that they focus opposite ways and it's a brain cramp when I carry both and alternate. Just do it, and if it's not for you, sell it.
The only Rolleiflexes that cost $1000-$1500 are the high-end mostly later production F2.8 models with Planar or Xenotar lenses, and they are almost in a class of their own optically and well worth the money if one has it. The more common Xenar and Tessar Rolleiflexes are comparable in performance to the later models of the Yashica series, but still cost at least twice as much ($200-$500 in good working condition depending on many factors). For me the difference between a Tessar/Xenar equipped Rolleiflex and a Yashica is not large enough to justify the price difference. They both yield excellent results in capable hands. The Yashicas are a very good deal. Autocords and a few others from Japan are good too, but not as numerous as the Yashica's and often command a signficant price premium due to (understandable) collector interest.
Mint 3.5E's are now selling for £1000+/$1600+ in the UK, the market has been rising sharply over the past 2 or 3 years.
One trend in Europe at least is many film users are moving to 120 or LF cameras and they fuel demand for good condition equipment.
Ian
One trend in Europe at least is many film users are moving to 120 or LF cameras and they fuel demand for good condition equipment.
Ian
Its rather a healthy sign that demand goes up...hope in the further that Rollei, introduces new models. ;-)
I put my 3.5e on C.L 6 months ago and only had one response. That guy never once asked to look at camera. At the time I had it listed for $600 and he wrote 4 times wanting to know if I would take $400. I use the camera for street shooting. It was all about bragging rights I think. I also have 3 Yashicas and 5 Mamiya TLR's. When I posted mine, I thought $600 might be high because it has an awkward bump that a CLA probably wouldn't fix. I have lived with that bump 4 years and never once did it change the final outcome of a photo.
My point is, all the TLR's have a different look and feel to them. I can't even imagine paying that much for a Rollei. Its just a light tight box that holds film. I love Mamiya, but when I want to go wandering in the street, I tend to grab the Rollei. That's what makes it worth the money to me.
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