Rolleiflex vs rolleicord

cabledog · Oct 5, 2017

Okay so there is a local guy selling his vb for $220. Only issue I can see is that the front leather was changed to a red carbon fiber cover. But i can redo that with a $40 kit. And he says shutter speeds are a little off below 1/4 but i can live with that. Fingers crossed that's all that's wrong. Gonna try and see it today.

macfred · Oct 5, 2017

cabledog said:
Okay so there is a local guy selling his vb for $220. Only issue I can see is that the front leather was changed to a red carbon fiber cover. But i can redo that with a $40 kit. And he says shutter speeds are a little off below 1/4 but i can live with that. Fingers crossed that's all that's wrong. Gonna try and see it today.

Fingers crossed ...
Personally, I would go for a CLA'd (overhauled) Vb with some accesories (UV -, Yellow and Green filters; a original lens shade - with good luck you'll get a Rolleinar close-up lens) for -maybe- 350 - 400,-- - just to keep the additional costs low.
Initially this sounds more expensive - in my experience you can save some money this way.

Dali · Oct 5, 2017

I agree, $350-400 is the price for a clean and CLAed Rolleicord. This is more or less what costed me my Cord V in excellent (almost new) condition. CLAed several years ago, it works perfectly.

cabledog · Oct 5, 2017

I brought up my concerns to a rollei repair shop and he said just shoot it. If the only that's wrong is the slower speeds are a little off then it's fine. As some have already mentioned many pass of a cla even if it was done by an amateur then charge more. Without a receipt it's hard to know. I'd rather buy it cheaper and if I need to send it for cla or repair at least I know it's a pro working on it. And it'll probably come out the same in the long run

Down Under · Oct 5, 2017

An odd but positive feature of Rolleiflex/Rolleicord shutters, is that with use, the slow shutter speeds often "degum" themselves and auto-adjust to quite close to their original settings. This has happened with several of my Rolleis,notably a black T I bought in the '90s which had acceptable tolerances in the high (above 1/30) shutter speeds but bummer slow speeds.

After a few months of regular use, mostly at 1/60 to 1/250, I did a routine shutter speed test and discovered to my amazement (and amusement) that the slow shutter speeds had somehow "reset" themselves and were working almost normally.

The camera worked well until I finally had it CLA'd in the late '00s, not for any particular reason to do with that Rollei but my Melbourne camera repair man was about to retire and I did a good deal with him to have four or five of my older cameras serviced.

II still use this T fairly regularly and it shoots well. No problems at all. Another T I bought in the early '90s has never had any problems but was also CLA'd with the batch.

Mine seem to be permanently set on 1/125 at f/11 or a tad beyond, for ISO 100 films. For ISO 400 films, move the levers over to 1/500 at f/11. Open up a stop on cloudy days, two stops for deep shade. There you go!

Barring any unplanned accidents I expect my two cameras to go on working well for the rest of my time using them.

Rollei Bayonet I accessories can often be found at affordable prices. The I filters and close up lenses work on all the Tessar Rolleis and the Rolleicord Xenars.

What better could anyone wish for? Maybe if the price of 120 B&W roll film in Australia could drop to A$3 a roll as it was in the 1990s, oh well...

cabledog · Oct 5, 2017

ozmoose said:
An odd but positive feature of Rolleiflex/Rolleicord shutters, is that with use, the slow shutter speeds often "degum" themselves and auto-adjust to quite close to their original settings. This has happened with several of my Rolleis,notably a black T I bought in the '90s which had acceptable tolerances in the high (above 1/30) shutter speeds but bummer slow speeds.

After a few months of regular use, mostly at 1/60 to 1/250, I did a routine shutter speed test and discovered to my amazement (and amusement) that the slow shutter speeds had somehow "reset" themselves and were working almost normally.

The camera worked well until I finally had it CLA'd in the late '00s, not for any particular reason to do with that Rollei but my Melbourne camera repair man was about to retire and I did a good deal with him to have four or five of my older cameras serviced.

II still use this T fairly regularly and it shoots well. No problems at all. Another T I bought in the early '90s has never had any problems but was also CLA'd with the batch.

Mine seem to be permanently set on 1/125 at f/11 or a tad beyond, for ISO 100 films. For ISO 400 films, move the levers over to 1/500 at f/11. Open up a stop on cloudy days, two stops for deep shade. There you go!

Barring any unplanned accidents I expect my two cameras to go on working well for the rest of my time using them.

Rollei Bayonet I accessories can often be found at affordable prices. The I filters and close up lenses work on all the Tessar Rolleis and the Rolleicord Xenars.

What better could anyone wish for? Maybe if the price of 120 B&W roll film in Australia could drop to A$3 a roll as it was in the 1990s, oh well...

Interesting you being that up as I have read similar posts elsewhere about the same thing happening. People just using it regularly and the speeds magically get better. There's hope for me yet!

BrianShaw · Oct 5, 2017

It's often a temporary and unreliable "cure".

E. von Hoegh · Oct 6, 2017

BrianShaw said:
It's often a temporary and unreliable "cure".

And leads to accelerated/excessive wear in the shutters, as well as other parts like the film advance that keep dragging on.
My '46 Automat works and sounds great when you warm it up in the sun. The slow speeds even test pretty well and the self timer works. Room temperature? Stiff advance, jammed timer, and nothing below 1/50th.

cabledog · Oct 6, 2017

Okay so Here is what I'm looking at for options. What you guys think?

1) CORD Vb- perfect optics, needs new leatherette, lower shutter speeds not accurate. $220
2) CORD V- excellent condition all around, cleaned by seller, mamiya focus screen. $275

macfred · Oct 6, 2017

cabledog said:
Okay so Here is what I'm looking at for options. What you guys think?

1) MX EVS- perfect condition including optics and was CLAd by Paul (forgot last name) few months ago. $500
2) CORD Vb- perfect optics, needs new leatherette, lower shutter speeds not accurate. $220
3) CORD V- excellent condition all around, overhauled by seller, mamiya focus screen. $275

1) should be Mr. Paul Ebel - a well known Rollei reapairman with good reputation here at APUG / Photrio -
price isn't cheap but with a CLAd MX EVS you should have unclouded joy for many years ...

2) I really like the Vb but I woudn't buy one for $220 in poor condition - will cost you much more in the end I guess ...

3) sounds good for me - overhauled means CLAd ? Can you try it first ? The Mamiya screen is a nice to have.
An attractive offer !!

cabledog · Oct 6, 2017

Okay so the seller that was offering the mx evs is no longer offering it sooooo. I don't have the chance to try it unfortunately since it's not local. Although the local guy I'm meeting up with does have a V for sale as well that he's bringing with him so I'll check it out as well. I'm guessing the local guy doesn't actually use or repair all these cameras. Think he just buys and resells them as is which could be a concern.

macfred said:
1) should be Mr. Paul Ebel - a well known Rollei reapairman with good reputation here at APUG / Photrio -
price isn't cheap but with a CLAd MX EVS you should have unclouded joy for many years ...

2) I really like the Vb but I woudn't buy one for $220 in poor condition - will cost you much more in the end I guess ...

3) sounds good for me - overhauled means CLAd ? Can you try it first ? The Mamiya screen is a nice to have.
An attractive offer !!

E. von Hoegh · Oct 6, 2017

macfred said:
1) should be Mr. Paul Ebel - a well known Rollei reapairman with good reputation here at APUG / Photrio -
price isn't cheap but with a CLAd MX EVS you should have unclouded joy for many years ...

2) I really like the Vb but I woudn't buy one for $220 in poor condition - will cost you much more in the end I guess ...

3) sounds good for me - overhauled means CLAd ? Can you try it first ? The Mamiya screen is a nice to have.
An attractive offer !!

"Overhauled" is an order of magnitude or so beyond a "CLA" It means the camera was completely stripped, all parts cleaned, and then reassembled, lubricating in the process. A camera cannot be lubricated at all necessary points when it is assembled.
A "CLA" means the covers are taken off, dirt brushed out, some points may receive lubrication, and the various functions are tested and adjusted if necessary.
At least that's what those terms used to mean. They don't seem to mean much today.
As a buyer, unless there is an itemised receipt for the work done, the work wasn't done. Caveat, cavere, emptor.

cabledog · Oct 6, 2017

I'm assuming it was probably just stripped down and cleaned and not a full overhaul. I used the wrong wording there.

E. von Hoegh · Oct 6, 2017

cabledog said:
I'm assuming it was probably just stripped down and cleaned and not a full overhaul. I used the wrong wording there.

Remember, no receipt, no work was done, and pay accordingly
I won't buy any camera advertised as CLA'd or overhauled; if it was done right by someone I'm familiar with - say Sover Wong for Nikon Fs - I can't afford the camera and if it wasn't done right, even if the price is right, I'm tired of cleaning up other's messes.

cabledog · Oct 6, 2017

He's on apug under Dan Daniels. In fact he's commented on this thread earlier. Ever heard of him?

E. von Hoegh said:
Remember, no receipt, no work was done, and pay accordingly
I won't buy any camera advertised as CLA'd or overhauled; if it was done right by someone I'm familiar with - say Sover Wong for Nikon Fs - I can't afford the camera and if it wasn't done right, even if the price is right, I'm tired of cleaning up other's messes.

E. von Hoegh · Oct 6, 2017

cabledog said:
He's on apug under Dan Daniels. Ever heard of him?

No, but I will say that everyone I've dealt with here has been both honest and a pleasure to deal with. I think the sense of community promotes that.

cabledog · Oct 6, 2017

E. von Hoegh said:
No, but I will say that everyone I've dealt with here has been both honest and a pleasure to deal with. I think the sense of community promotes that.

Oh yeah definitely! That's why I'd rather buy from someone on here cause they are trustworthy

BrianShaw · Oct 6, 2017

Dan's been around for a while (here and other forums) and seems to be very knowledgeable about Rolleis. I would tend to trust his word on both condition and any work he has done. I never take those words at face value and always ask what exact work has been done... for full disclosure to ensure I'm confident in what I'm buying. I'm quite sure that Dan will clarify beyond just those words. But no matter what, the actual performance of the actual camera you buy determines if it is good for your purposes.

mike c · Oct 6, 2017

I

cabledog said:
He's on apug under Dan Daniels. In fact he's commented on this thread earlier. Ever heard of him?

I have bought some equipment from Dan, I did not know he repaired cameras.

FujiLove · Oct 7, 2017

cabledog said:
Hahaha. Damn it I really want a rolleicord V in good condition. Doesn't anyone on here want to sell me theirs???!!!!!!!!

http://www.igorcamera.com/classic_rolleiflex_tlr.htm

Down Under · Oct 7, 2017

BrianShaw said:
It's often a temporary and unreliable "cure".

I couldn't agree more. My comment was entirely Without Prejudice and referred to my 1960s Rolleiflex T, which (also noted in my post) I subsequently had CLA'd a few years after I bought it. It works well to this day.

To me a Rollei TLR is a unique product from a now largely vanished era in camera manufacturing in Europe when firms such as F&H (Rollei) held to incredibly high quality control standards which would nowadays be almost unaffordable. My first Rolleiflex, a 3.5E2, was on a shelf at my home town pharmacy (aka drug store) for five years before I bought it for the then princely sum of C$195. The pharmacist kindly let me pay for that Rollei over five months as at the time I earned C$60 a week as a trainee journalist plus small money from shooting news and weddings. This Rollei had its first CLA in the late '80s and the second (and last) in 2002. The taking lens (Zeiss Planar) has one or two small spots of separation between two elements which in no way seems to degrade the images. To a prospective buyer this 3.5E2 is worthless but I'm still using it and I won't be selling it. On the other hand all the 'prosumer' SLRs I've owned since 1972 (with the exception of my Nikkormats which seem to be made of cast iron) long ago bit the dust.

Old Rolleis keep going. The Rolleicord Vb I bought this year on Ebay was advertised as "everything seems to work OK" which would ordinarily raise hackles with me, but the seller had 100% feedback over many years and I got the Vb for A$95 anyway, so not a lot of Caveat Emptor angst there. to my surprise, it works just fine. I added a 16 exposure kit and took it with me to Malaysia for B&W work. It's my knockabout Rollei and I'm super happy with it. If it's damaged during the trip, I'll seriously consider having it repaired in Singapore.

A Rollei in good working order and serviced as and when it requires it, is a fine precision tool that will easily last you a lifetime. If you can find one in good working order (check to make sure it hasn't been dropped, which often as not damages the waist level finder and stuffs up the fine focussing), by all means get it. You will never look back...

marcmarc · Oct 18, 2017

I was given two Rolleicord IV's last year. I took one to Harry Fleenor and it pretty much needed a complete overhaul - Shutter cleaning and adjustment, focusing was off, and film transport needed work. Several hundred dollars later I began to use it. It was a great camera, I had no beef about the sharpness or performance of the camera. It was lightweight and a joy to use. Then, a few months ago some problems started creeping back up. I started getting blank frames and the film advance knob stopped turning smoothy and not surprisingly I got one or two overlapped frames. I'm going to guess from the time I picked up the camera from Fleenor until these issues started appearing I maybe only put about 30-40 rolls through it. So I decided it wasn't worth putting in another several hundred dollars into it and decided to try the Mamiya TLR's which I've just started using and I just love them. So my advice regarding the Rolleicords are they are great bargains if you can get a hold of one in good shape. I keep hearing people say that after an overhaul a rolleicord/flex will last for years so maybe I just have bad luck like I usually do with cameras this old. Whatever you choose good luck.

Loren Sattler · Oct 18, 2017

I have a Rolleicord IV which is probably my favorite camera due to light weight and medium format negative. The Schneider/Xenar lens is excellent.

For walk around use, I hand hold it with a neck strap and a cable release. I pull the camera down while viewing then release the shutter with the cable release. This is much more convenient than lugging around a tripod or monopod. I find no issue with the need to cock the shutter. For travel it is very light for a medium format camera and a pleasure to use. I upgraded the viewing screen because the standard unit is quite dark. Great all around camera.

baachitraka · Oct 19, 2017

If the focus is on taking photographs and making prints (hybrid) then what gear you carry may not play a big role. But it is always interesting to discuss about gear though ;-)

ITKI · Dec 5, 2017

Loren Sattler said:
I upgraded the viewing screen because the standard unit is quite dark.

Can you please tell me what viewing screen you're using instead now / which ones you can recommend?
Been searching the internet for alternatives and so far only found this site basically and wonder if the screens are worth the money..

Thank you!

Rolleiflex vs rolleicord

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