Rolleiflex Tessar vs Planar

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Axelwik

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Well, for starters lens and body are married to each other. Taking lens and lens to film plane distance were calibrated carefully at the factory.

No unnecessary mechanical movement either. Only the snick of the shutter.

No film back cassette that can have film plane alignment problems.

Hasselblad has set the standard for precision when it comes to film plane and lens mount alignment. I've never seen a problem with it unless some amateur messed with it. In terms of mirror vibration the camera can be pre-released to only activate the leaf shutter for taking the photo. It's also a heavier system, which tends to be more stable when taking photos.

In the real world I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference. I like the Tessar equipped Rolleiflex because it's very lightweight. A 2.8 Planar Rolleiflex starts to get heavier, so might as well use a Hasselblad with the interchangeable lenses and the advantages of an SLR.
 

Helge

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Hasselblad has set the standard for precision when it comes to film plane and lens mount alignment. I've never seen a problem with it unless some amateur messed with it. In terms of mirror vibration the camera can be pre-released to only activate the leaf shutter for taking the photo. It's also a heavier system, which tends to be more stable when taking photos.

In the real world I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference. I like the Tessar equipped Rolleiflex because it's very lightweight. A 2.8 Planar Rolleiflex starts to get heavier, so might as well use a Hasselblad with the interchangeable lenses and the advantages of an SLR.

Wear and manufacturing differences will always, even with immaculate tolerances, be worse than a completely matched set.
F&H were not casual in that department.

Prerelease mirror means that you lose that half second, at least, between it and the decisive moment.
Not so with a TLR.

The form factor of the Hasselblad is more unwieldy than the Rolleiflex.
The latter can be held to your body for support. A Hasselblad will stick out from your belly or be held in a sideways stance.
It’s basically a shrunk down version of a camera shape that was meant for air reconnaissance.

The 3.5 Tessar was because more lens surfaces didn’t make much sense in medium format before coating.
And even with coating there was, as you say, weight and size advantages.
But even a 2.8 is still significantly smaller and lighter than a Hasselblad.
 

Axelwik

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Wear and manufacturing differences will always, even with immaculate tolerances, be worse than a completely matched set.
F&H were not casual in that department.

Prerelease mirror means that you lose that half second, at least, between it and the decisive moment.
Not so with a TLR.

The form factor of the Hasselblad is more unwieldy than the Rolleiflex.
The latter can be held to your body for support. A Hasselblad will stick out from your belly or be held in a sideways stance.
It’s basically a shrunk down version of a camera shape that was meant for air reconnaissance.

The 3.5 Tessar was because more lens surfaces didn’t make much sense in medium format before coating.
And even with coating there was, as you say, weight and size advantages.
But even a 2.8 is still significantly smaller and lighter than a Hasselblad.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't make a bit of difference. Great photos have been taken with both. (And by the way, how do you know if Rolleiflex is more precise than Hasselblad? The manufacturing tolerances at Rollei might have been worse than Hasselblad despite the removable lenses and back.)

Anyway, it's kind of a moot point because they're both good, and I don't think anyone could tell the difference looking at a print hanging on the wall! Subjectively I like the way the Tessar renders images anyway. Plasmats are great, but for some things a little too clean and clinical for my taste.
 
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Axelwik

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Prerelease mirror means that you lose that half second, at least, between it and the decisive moment.
Not so with a TLR.
If it's a "decisive moment" shot, then it's probably being hand held. Camera shake from hand holding a camera is orders of magnitude more destructive to image quality than virtually any manufacturing tolerances or mirror shake!

Form factor is subjective - I prefer the Hasselblad for most things, although the Rollei isn't too bad. I like the Hasselblad better because when used properly both hands cradle the camera in a more secure way. The Rolleiflex requires the left hand to twist the focusing knob without really supporting the camera while the right hand operates the shutter release - not as good in my opinion, but can be improved with a tight neck strap. I've taken photos in low light with slow shutter speeds with my Rolleiflex that sold in galleries, but between the two I've sold many more taken with the Hasselblads.
 
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Helge

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Hasselblad has set the standard for precision when it comes to film plane and lens mount alignment. I've never seen a problem with it unless some amateur messed with it. In terms of mirror vibration the camera can be pre-released to only activate the leaf shutter for taking the photo. It's also a heavier system, which tends to be more stable when taking photos.

In the real world I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference. I like the Tessar equipped Rolleiflex because it's very lightweight. A 2.8 Planar Rolleiflex starts to get heavier, so might as well use a Hasselblad with the interchangeable lenses and the advantages of an SLR.

Exactly, hence the “theoretically” in the initial post.
 

JPD

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I like the Tessar equipped Rolleiflex because it's very lightweight. A 2.8 Planar Rolleiflex starts to get heavier, so might as well use a Hasselblad with the interchangeable lenses and the advantages of an SLR.
I sold my 2,8 F because mostly because of its weight and I didn't feel I needed the slightly faster lens. The 3,5 Planar is great, and the Tessar models are lighter and the lens has more "character". A pre-war Rolleiflex Automat is currently one of my favourite cameras, and it's even lighter. The uncoated lens is charming and has all the sharpness I want from a Rollei.
 

jp498

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3.5 tessar fan here. (Automat). Lightweight, rugged. Lots of aperture blades, so nice bokeh at any aperture.
I also have a 2.8 tessar but it's quite a bit heavier and nose heavy, but otherwise nice.

I'm sufficiently pleased with the TLRs (but not smug) that I have not sought to see if the grass is greener in Hasselblad land.
 

Helge

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3.5 tessar fan here. (Automat). Lightweight, rugged. Lots of aperture blades, so nice bokeh at any aperture.
I also have a 2.8 tessar but it's quite a bit heavier and nose heavy, but otherwise nice.

I'm sufficiently pleased with the TLRs (but not smug) that I have not sought to see if the grass is greener in Hasselblad land.

Oh, those Hasselblad guys could use a bit of counter smugness, to balance things out.
 
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I sold my 2,8 F because mostly because of its weight and I didn't feel I needed the slightly faster lens. The 3,5 Planar is great, and the Tessar models are lighter and the lens has more "character". A pre-war Rolleiflex Automat is currently one of my favourite cameras, and it's even lighter. The uncoated lens is charming and has all the sharpness I want from a Rollei.

To regress further: My favorite TLR is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens. It's even lighter and simpler than your Automat, and its Triotar lens renders a distinctive look of its own that I love. I also have a couple of Art Deco Rolleicords with f/4.5 Triotars and while they too produce amazing images, they don't feel quite as bulletproof as the Rolleicord II so they stay up on the shelf. Here's a selfie I shot with one ten years ago, when I was young and handsome:

8696591043
 
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Kodachromeguy

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Thing is a Rolleiflex with Planar has the potential to be better than a Hasselblad with “the same” lens.

The two Planar lenses share the 80mm and f/2.8 but otherwise are very different lenses. One is 5- element and compact. The other is 7- element and slightly retrofocus to allow the rear element to clear the mirror. They both perform very well.
 

btaylor

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I sold my 2,8 F because mostly because of its weight and I didn't feel I needed the slightly faster lens. The 3,5 Planar is great, and the Tessar models are lighter and the lens has more "character". A pre-war Rolleiflex Automat is currently one of my favourite cameras, and it's even lighter. The uncoated lens is charming and has all the sharpness I want from a Rollei.

Agree on the weight of the 2.8 and the balance issue (front heavy). I have a 2.8D that I seldom use, preferring my Rolleicord V or ‘50’s Automat. The balance of the 3.5F (Planar) is good, but all the additional features sure push up the weight. I have never had any complaints concerning sharpness with any of them.
 

JPD

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To regress further: My favorite TLR is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens. It's even lighter and simpler than your Automat, and its Triotar lens renders a distinctive look of its own that I love. I also have a couple of Art Deco Rolleicords with f/4.5 Triotars and while they too produce amazing images, they don't feel quite as bulletproof as the Rolleicord II so they stay up on the shelf. Here's a selfie I shot with one ten years ago, when I was young and handsome:
Nice example of the mandatory Rollei selfie!

I used to have all the pre-war Rolleicord models, but sold a couple. Currently I have the Art Deco model and its 3,8 sibling, the all the Ia models and the II, type 1, 4 and 5. I like the slight wide-open swirl and the interesting unruly corner blur. I like the simpler counter on the first models. It's easy to see from above and less prone to failure due to old gummy lubricants.

I also have the three Rolleiflex Standard models, with the 4,5, 3,8 and 3,5 Tessar, but I don't like the geared focusing mechanism. the subject doesn't snap into focus like with the Automat and Rolleicords, so you have to use the loupe and turn the focus knob back and forth many times, and now when my older eyes it isn't easy.
 

Helge

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The two Planar lenses share the 80mm and f/2.8 but otherwise are very different lenses. One is 5- element and compact. The other is 7- element and slightly retrofocus to allow the rear element to clear the mirror. They both perform very well.

Yeah. There are many non obvious and obvious small and bigger aspects that separate the two designs.
The Rolleiflex optical design and mechanics has more in common with a medium format rangefinder than an SLR for instance.

Less elements with simple coating can be better.
F&H never got to the really advanced lens coating. So we don’t have like for like to compare.
The last 2.8 HB Planars, while optically similar has a lot of little tweaks, including but not exclusive to coatings.

A lot also depends on the exact condition of the particular specimen of course.
 
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MattKing

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To regress further: My favorite TLR is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens. It's even lighter and simpler than your Automat, and its Triotar lens renders a distinctive look of its own that I love. I also have a couple of Art Deco Rolleicords with f/4.5 Triotars and while they too produce amazing images, they don't feel quite as bulletproof as the Rolleicord II so they stay up on the shelf. Here's a selfie I shot with one ten years ago, when I was young and handsome:

8696591043


When you are at work in your day job, do you wear that bow tie and white shoes? :whistling:
 
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RalphLambrecht

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Yes, there is a difference.

I own a Rolleicord with a Tessar 3,5/75 and a flex 3,5F with a Planar 3,5/75.

For critical work (brickwork that reaches to the corners) you need to stop down the Tessar to f/8. Half a stop wider open, f/6.7 may be accceptable, but you see a difference.

The Planar can be used at every case at f/5.6 and may be at f/4.7, that is "one stop faster" for the same image quality. Wide open the Planar is slightly soft in the corners but quite sharp in the center. The Tessar is soft even in the center at f/3.4 and f/4. May be used for portrait work, but not for landscape or architecture.

This makes sense because the Planar is a much more modern design than the Tessar.
 

GregY

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To regress further: My favorite TLR is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens. It's even lighter and simpler than your Automat, and its Triotar lens renders a distinctive look of its own that I love. I also have a couple of Art Deco Rolleicords with f/4.5 Triotars and while they too produce amazing images, they don't feel quite as bulletproof as the Rolleicord II so they stay up on the shelf. Here's a selfie I shot with one ten years ago, when I was young and handsome:

8696591043


Sanders that's a classic portrait of a Rolleiflex aficionado!
 

Ian Grant

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To regress further: My favorite TLR is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens. It's even lighter and simpler than your Automat, and its Triotar lens renders a distinctive look of its own that I love. I also have a couple of Art Deco Rolleicords with f/4.5 Triotars and while they too produce amazing images, they don't feel quite as bulletproof as the Rolleicord II so they stay up on the shelf. Here's a selfie I shot with one ten years ago, when I was young and handsome:

8696591043


I used a Rolleicord II in the mid 1970s the Triotar lens was superb for portraits, I'd use one again.

Ian
 

Frank53

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To regress further: My favorite TLR is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens. It's even lighter and simpler than your Automat, and its Triotar lens renders a distinctive look of its own that I love. I also have a couple of Art Deco Rolleicords with f/4.5 Triotars and while they too produce amazing images, they don't feel quite as bulletproof as the Rolleicord II so they stay up on the shelf. Here's a selfie I shot with one ten years ago, when I was young and handsome:

8696591043


Talking about Rolleiflex selfies, after almost 50 years, the 3.5F is still there, the hair is a lot shorter and a bit less.
 

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Talking about Rolleiflex selfies, after almost 50 years, the 3.5F is still there, the hair is a lot shorter and a bit less.

In the 1970s, a Rolleiflex was so far beyond my means that I could not imagine ever owning one. You were lucky to have the privilege.
 

RalphLambrecht

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From my own limited experience, I'd say the Planar is decisively sharper off-center, somewhat sharper in the center, and has a certain "pop" factor the Tessar types lack---but it might fairly be accused of a certain modern, "clinical" look that isn't always what you want. But neither one will ever, *ever*, be accused of being a technically inadequate lens, except by someone who's got something wrong with them!

We may lose sight of this aspect sometimes, inveterate gearheads that many of us are---it's easy to get caught up worrying about the difference between "really really good" and "technically better than practically anyone needs".

-NT

true;perfect is the main enemy of 'good enough'
 
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Bought it second hand for around us$250 if I remember well.

I was making $2/hour in jobs before heading off to college in 1976 -- $250 was not possible for me then. $250, adjusted for inflation, is about $1500 in 2023 dollars. That sounds like a bargain for the period. I just remember looking at medium format equipment at the time in the camera magazine ads, and thinking that cameras like Rolleiflexes were like Ferraris -- wonderful things that I would never be able to own.
 

Slixtiesix

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The two Planar lenses share the 80mm and f/2.8 but otherwise are very different lenses. One is 5- element and compact. The other is 7- element and slightly retrofocus to allow the rear element to clear the mirror. They both perform very well.

This is the point indeed. Anyway, someone did a test on that and the differences are not that big.

Regarding the Tessar vs. Planar debate, I am a great fan of the 3,5 T-Model. This was a redesigned Tessar quite a bit different from the earlier Pre- and Postwar models. Zeiss did use a computer to tweak the performance a bit. Wide open, the Planar still has the edge, but the Tessar becomes nicely sharp by f 5,6 and
has a sharp and contrasty look with beautiful bokeh.
 
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